PURE JUDAISM TO RADICALISED RABBI
Ok, yes. I see that you wouldn't require worship of any specific god. But if you are so concerned with idolatry and blasphemy, then that would require you to specify who God is so as not to blaspheme. If you want to say God is the creator of everything in a general sense, and allow freedom to worship or not worship just as long as you don't go against that, then fine. If it's just a legal system, then my point is why even bring God into it? I can see as an agnostic, this idea wouldn't be a big deal, but to atheists I think it would. Or maybe not. Have you talked to any atheists about this?
Yes, it is my belief that Muslims worship another God than the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob. Yes, I believe Christianity is Idolatry. I believe if Allah was the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob, then he would have given the same laws to Muhammad that he gave to Moses. And Muhammad would have given his name as I guess whatever the Arabic is of Yehovah. There are laws that contradict Torah, so if the claim that this is correcting the corruption of the Rabbis of the Torah, but actually changes the original Law of Moses, then you would have to say it's not the same God. It's only the claim of Muslims through Muhammad. I'm saying when you look at it, it doesn't match up, but rather borrows, adds, and replaces it. As I said before, I'm not an expert in Islam. This is just my opinion from what I do know.
You keep saying the Noahide Laws are the minimum to go by. Ok, so doesn't Islam have laws against murder, adultery, homosexuality, stealing, not to eat live animals (or really the blood from animals)? The notion of setting up courts? I don't know you tell me. Of so, then why is it necessary to keep bringing up the Noahide Laws? Just use Islam. You are already using Sharia as the foundation for the rest. To me, it just seems like another take over of anything non Muslim and making it Muslim. That offends me.
God chose the Jews to be a testament to His existence by giving them His Laws in order for them to live in peace and happiness in a moral just society. To be an example for the nation's of how God works in the physical world to overcome their oppressors, free them from bondage, and heal their sickness. To hear their distress and save them. To bless them with bounty and goodness
The Noahide Laws are a Rabbinic invention created in the first century during Roman occupation. It's possible it was to guard against the nascent Christian movement, or because it was too hard at that time to get new converts to adhere to all the standards due to all the other Pagan influences surrounding them at the time. There is no notion in the Torah of separate laws for gentiles. It's only in the last few years or decades with Chabad thinking that the Messiah is coming and the Zohar's influence that more and more Rabbis are gloming on to this idea. It's also due to rabbis not wanting to convert gentiles. Not because of what's in the Torah, but because they view gentiles as 'below' them. This is against God
So let me get this right. So since I've stated that the Noahide laws are against Torah in the Land of Israel, you want Jews, instead of following a less strict form of Judaism, you want them to follow a less strict form of Islam? Uh, No. No Jew whether Secular or religious would ever agree to that. I agree that no one can go from 0 to 100 all at once. That's why I think everyone is all for the 7 basic laws, but when born Jews who were previously secular become observant, they are not given just 7 laws. You start one step at a time. My suggestion would be to take the issue of punishments off the table. Especially for Shabbat. That's what scares secular away from religion in the first place. Have a bare minimum set for like Shabbat so people get used to it. And so on. Rabbis have made things harder than they need to be
As far as American liberals and Christians going for Secular Koranism, I can't say without knowing all your proposed laws. From what I've read, you want to have brothels, but want marriage fidelity? So I would assume only single people would be allowed. You also are for this technical but real 'wife beating'. And for slavery. You also don't speak about punishments. It's still hard for me to envision who would be interested in that type of government. You might find yourself with more fundamentalists than former liberals. If Israel becomes a theocracy, it will be one based on Judaism and not Islam. Jews will fight to the death over that.
RADICALISED RABBI TO PURE JUDAISM
On Thursday, 13 August 2020, 14:33:02 BST, pure.judaism
Ok, yes. I see that you wouldn't require worship of any specific god. But if you are so concerned with idolatry and blasphemy, then that would require you to specify who God is so as not to blaspheme. If you want to say God is the creator of everything in a general sense, and allow freedom to worship or not worship just as long as you don't go against that, then fine. If it's just a legal system, then my point is why even bring God into it? I can see as an agnostic, this idea wouldn't be a big deal, but to atheists I think it would. Or maybe not. Have you talked to any atheists about this?
When did I "bring God into it"? quran.com/2/256 guarantees freedom of belief.
Yes, it is my belief that Muslims worship another God than the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob. Yes, I believe Christianity is Idolatry. I believe if Allah was the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob, then he would have given the same laws to Muhammad that he gave to Moses. And Muhammad would have given his name as I guess whatever the Arabic is of Yehovah. There are laws that contradict Torah, so if the claim that this is correcting the corruption of the Rabbis of the Torah, but actually changes the original Law of Moses, then you would have to say it's not the same God. It's only the claim of Muslims through Muhammad. I'm saying when you look at it, it doesn't match up, but rather borrows, adds, and replaces it. As I said before, I'm not an expert in Islam. This is just my opinion from what I do know.
If there is only one God, and Muslims already accept the prophets of Jews and Christians while emphasising the oneness of God, as well as repeating the stories of the Tanakh, then I don't see what other God they could believe in other than the Abrahamic God.
You keep saying the Noahide Laws are the minimum to go by. Ok, so doesn't Islam have laws against murder, adultery, homosexuality, stealing, not to eat live animals (or really the blood from animals)? The notion of setting up courts? I don't know you tell me. Of so, then why is it necessary to keep bringing up the Noahide Laws? Just use Islam. You are already using Sharia as the foundation for the rest. To me, it just seems like another take over of anything non Muslim and making it Muslim. That offends me.
I keep bringing up the Noahide laws because I need a consensus of rabbis to declare Islam the most Naohide of all gentile religions and Christianity the least.
God chose the Jews to be a testament to His existence by giving them His Laws in order for them to live in peace and happiness in a moral just society. To be an example for the nation's of how God works in the physical world to overcome their oppressors, free them from bondage, and heal their sickness. To hear their distress and save them. To bless them with bounty and goodness
The Noahide Laws are a Rabbinic invention created in the first century during Roman occupation. It's possible it was to guard against the nascent Christian movement, or because it was too hard at that time to get new converts to adhere to all the standards due to all the other Pagan influences surrounding them at the time. There is no notion in the Torah of separate laws for gentiles. It's only in the last few years or decades with Chabad thinking that the Messiah is coming and the Zohar's influence that more and more Rabbis are gloming on to this idea. It's also due to rabbis not wanting to convert gentiles. Not because of what's in the Torah, but because they view gentiles as 'below' them. This is against God
So let me get this right. So since I've stated that the Noahide laws are against Torah in the Land of Israel, you want Jews, instead of following a less strict form of Judaism, you want them to follow a less strict form of Islam? Uh, No. No Jew whether Secular or religious would ever agree to that. I agree that no one can go from 0 to 100 all at once. That's why I think everyone is all for the 7 basic laws, but when born Jews who were previously secular become observant, they are not given just 7 laws. You start one step at a time. My suggestion would be to take the issue of punishments off the table. Especially for Shabbat. That's what scares secular away from religion in the first place. Have a bare minimum set for like Shabbat so people get used to it. And so on. Rabbis have made things harder than they need to be
As far as American liberals and Christians going for Secular Koranism, I can't say without knowing all your proposed laws. From what I've read, you want to have brothels, but want marriage fidelity? So I would assume only single people would be allowed. You also are for this technical but real 'wife beating'. And for slavery. You also don't speak about punishments. It's still hard for me to envision who would be interested in that type of government. You might find yourself with more fundamentalists than former liberals. If Israel becomes a theocracy, it will be one based on Judaism and not Islam. Jews will fight to the death over that.
Not every man is marriageable and prostitution is allowed by the Koran.
Verse in Koran implicitly accepts the existence of brothels
http://thebattlefieldoflove.blogspot.com/2010/06/verse-in-koran-implicitly-condones.html
My interpretation of that wife-beating verse 4:34
http://thebattlefieldoflove.blogspot.com/2010/06/my-interpretation-of-that-wife-beating.html
I also talked about slavery today, as it happens.
From 34:00
More on slavery at
http://www.verbalremedy.co.uk/slavery-and-sluttery-an-interview-with-claire-khaw/ and
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/apr/29/stephen-bates-diary
If Israelis want to acquire Greater Israel peacefully, they would be more likely to do it as a Koran-based theocracy than a Torah-based theocracy.
Greater Israel would only come about peacefully through Secular Koranism
https://radicalisedrabbi.blogspot.com/2020/02/greater-israel-would-only-come-about.html
Discussing the Noahide laws with "Pure Judaism" 2
Discussing the Noahide laws with "Pure Judaism" 1
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