Monday 26 March 2018

Jews must now remind gentiles of the Noahide laws





CK:


There must be some hierarchy of Jewishness with the Orthodox being top of the pyramids. Unobservant Jews who break the Sabbath are supposed to be stoned so really they are not supposed to exist at all.


Orthodox Jew:


Why should one group be on top of any other in the way you are suggesting. Judaism is and always has been a meritocracy.



Also unobservant jews are NOT supposed to be stoned except under very strict circumstances which practically never occur.


Me:


So you don't stone them but consider them dead to Judaism. Bad Jews give good Jews a bad name. Three missed Sabbaths and you are dead to Judaism is what I propose. A synagogic attendance register could work but would make it seem like school with extra marks for not driving to shul as well as per Amalekite exterminated.
Questions is, if one can be considered dead to Judaism, can one be resurrected? Should re-admission to Judaism be treated like having to retake your driving test?



 Orthodox Jew:


Judaism is not like Christianity or Islam. Synagogue attendance is not a pre-requisite for Judaism at all. Nor is keeping Shabbat. You can be a good Jew without attending synagogue and there are multiple reasons that Shabbat can be broken. Also even if you are secular and do not keep Shabbat, and even if you gather sticks from outside the town walls, you could be a good Jew. (Look up the Midrashim on the man who gathered sticks in the Book of Numbers).


Me:


What you say goes against the Torah though.



Orthodox Jew:


But how many times have you been told that the written Torah is not the same as full Torah. It's a notebook that can ONLY be understood with the aid of the Oral Law, as given in the Talmud and books outlining Jewish law that accompany the Torah. (A bit like the Hadith but more).



So who said it's not in the Torah? It is! (Otherwise you cannot understand all the later books of the Bible. Look at Ruth. Look at the Prophets.... Look at Daniel.... It all shows evidence that the written Torah is not all there is, apart from the ample internal evidence where the Torah clearly states that Jews should do stuff "as I have commanded you" - but there is NO command given in the written Torah. (Half of Kashrut falls into this category. The command is alluded to and that's all).



So cease with the ignorance. As the Passover Haggada says in one place: GO FORTH AND LEARN. (Idiots pronounce on minimal learning. Wiser people keep quiet until they've learned and then ask questions).


Me:


The commentary of a book cannot become more important than the book itself and certainly cannot contradict its principles. Unlike you, I have heard of Karaite Jews who also reject the Talmud when it contradicts the Torah. Either the Torah is immutable because it is the Word of God, or it is not. I am also aware of the 13 Laws of Judaism as well as the 613 Commandments. https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/sticks-and-stoned/

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