10:42 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
All Christian denominations have accused the others of heresy/blasphemy.
10:42 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
Jesus was accused of blasphemy.
10:44 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
If Jesus did indeed say he was son of God, then he was guilty of blasphemy, according to Jews. Muslims assume Jesus was wrongly accused and convicted.
10:47 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
Blasphemy is basically anything said or done that would offend God if He exists. If God is not in fact Jesus, He would be offended that Christians pray to Jesus instead of God.
10:47 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
To be fair to the Founding Fathers, they were Unitarians. Thomas Jefferson definitely was with his Jefferson Bible.
10:49 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
Jews and Muslims think of the Holy Ghost as the Agent of God sent by God - who cannot enter His own Universe because that would defy the logic of the system He created.
10:50 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
If Americans would but understand the objectives of the Founding Fathers, it was to reject the political system of absolute monarchy which they regarded as tyranny.
10:50 AM
@alohm
Blasphemy/Vilification, like the modern secular world - the animosity closes their minds to potential
10:50 AM
@βρεττς
#2
Blasphemy means to speak harm
10:51 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
Example of taking God's name in vain: OMFG.
10:51 AM
@alohm
vilification also means to speak harm - but the speak also speaks to breath and logos
10:52 AM
@alohm
If God Breathed or spoke our souls into us - no surprise how powerful speech can be
10:53 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
It is really quite simple, but Christians over the centuries have confused themselves and been confused by the false doctrine.
10:54 AM
@UpCycleClub
It's good silly, Brett.
10:54 AM
@alohm
βλασφημία (blasphēmia, Strong's G988) is a Greek noun meaning blasphemy, slander, defamation, or reviling.
10:55 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
The most important thing if you believe in the afterlife is to avoid the worse place. Idolatry and blasphemy is a mortal sin if not repented before death.
10:55 AM
@alohm
so to denounce our commitment to our trust/faith? Acts 26:11
10:55 AM
@βρεττς
#2
If you’re even afraid that you might have violated blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I would say Holy Spirit is in your heart.
10:55 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
@alohm Who wrote Acts?
10:55 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
The Koran does not mention blasphemy at all.
10:56 AM
@βρεττς
#2
Luke
10:57 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
The Koran actually supports the First Amendment with 2:256 and says God does not need a protector with 17:111 ie God does not need blasphemy laws to protect His hurty feelings.
10:58 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
Isaiah 45:7 actually says we are to blame God if we suffer evil and consider ourselves punished for our sins or being tested to see if we deserve something better than what we already have.
10:58 AM
@βρεττς
#2
If you're even afraidthat you might have violatedblasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I would say you have the Holy Spirit in your heart.
10:58 AM
@alohm
when you hear Allah’s revelations being denied and ridiculed, do not sit with them until they engage in some other conversation. Otherwise, you would be like them..."
10:58 AM
@alohm
"And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah, lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge."
10:59 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
I wonder if any of this is getting through. Probably not. I just have to have it on record that I tried, even if it fell on stony ground.
10:59 AM
@alohm
I Agree brett - the meaning of the paraclete is to walk beside us as we learn on this path - Trust or commitment in our path, devotion
11:00 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
Muhammad himself was told not to despair. He just had to fulfil his role as messenger. Not his problem if people pretended not to understand as long as he was on record for having told them clearly.
11:00 AM
@alohm
Jung found that even tribes that said they had no faith - they still had rites they practiced with trust
11:01 AM
@alohm
we all need a helper - a mentor and guide - that should be the community of believers - ecclesia?
11:02 AM
@alohm
That is the oldest tenet of most religions - to love others as you love thyself - simple alignment to compassion, a love that forgives...
11:02 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
@alohm Yep, the tribes were told to obey even if they did not believe. The results would obtain their belief in time.
11:03 AM
@alohm
no Jesus asked - Pisteuo - to be convinced - confidence - not belief in the modern parlance
11:03 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
Surah Ash-Shu'ara (26:208-209): "We have never destroyed a society without warners, to remind them, for We would never wrong anyone."
11:03 AM
@alohm
a trust, a confidence gained in practice...
11:03 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
Surah Fatir (35:24): "Indeed, We have sent you with the truth as a bringer of good tidings and a warner. And there was no nation but that there had passed within it a warner."
11:03 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
You're supposed to trust in God to protect you when you speak truth to power.
11:04 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
Surah Al-Isra (17:15): "No soul burdened with sin will bear the burden of another. And We would never punish until We have sent a messenger to warn them."
11:04 AM
@alohm
Jesus aligned the Leviticus mandate to love the neighbor as being an essential part of the Shema - Deuteronomy 6 -
11:04 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
Surah Al-Qasas (28:59): "And never did your Lord destroy the civilisations, till He had raised up in the birth-place of that civilisation a Messenger reciting to them Our Verses."
11:05 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
When you're talking, you're not listening let alone heeding.
11:05 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
But that's the idea, to talk over truth so you can ignore it.
11:05 AM
@alohm
That is the Chesed - we invented the word Loving Kindness because our idea of love was not enough to contain the covenantal love...
11:06 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
It's all about ignoring the moral imperative with displacement therapy ...
11:07 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
Bigotry hurts bigots, chauvinism hurts chauvinists, in the end.
11:07 AM
@βρεττς
#2
New literary device in New Testament
11:07 AM
@alohm
I am looking into the word heresy - good string to pull
11:08 AM
@alohm
Long before it had anything to do with religion, the Greek word hairesis ($αἵρεσις$) was completely neutral. It came from the verb haireo, meaning "to choose" or "a thing chosen."
11:09 AM
@alohm
That is Heresy - to choose your sect or path - funny how sematic shift works
11:10 AM
@βρεττς
#2
Just like a language
11:10 AM
@alohm
That chosen path or school of thought was your hairesis.
11:10 AM
@alohm
Like the word cult - I did the deep dive on that one last week - was not an insult at one point
11:10 AM
@βρεττς
#2
Yeah
11:11 AM
@alohm
to speak against is blaspheme - to choose your path - heresy - to prophesize is to speak to anther path or interpretation?
11:11 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
I am telling Christians 999,999,999 x2 = 1,999,999,998 and being told "Shaddup, we just want to get there by adding each sum to with 1 until we get there."
11:12 AM
@alohm
Jesus speaking that to wear the Shema is not the message in Deut 6 - it is to live it - that is Heresy at the time to many?
11:12 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
Heresy is blasphemy.
11:12 AM
@alohm
To some it was Blasphemous - but to Jesus it was the meaning of the Shema?
11:12 AM
@βρεττς
#2
Seers
11:13 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
@alohm Orthodox Jews say they have no record of Jesus at all.
11:13 AM
@βρεττς
#2
All ancient cultures had seers
11:13 AM
@alohm
Son's of Adam
11:14 AM
@alohm
isiaih 21 - Go set a watchman - have them tell what they see - Seers 😉
11:14 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
None of this matters. What matters if God exists is not to break his first and second commandments and die guilty of a mortal sin ending up in the worse place.
11:15 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#1
You are supposed to trust that good will be rewarded and evil punished in this life and the next. That is all! GAH!!!!!!
11:15 AM
@alohm
That is why we are introduced to the paraclete - the Koinonia - we support each other and the spirit...
11:15 AM
@alohm
*Spirit supports us - not we it **
11:16 AM
@alohm
Surah 4:125 - All believers in the God of Abraham - doers of good works and followers of truth.
11:16 AM
@SeekingGenuine
That feels like the structure of a marriage, with the woman trusting in the man to be liking towards God
11:16 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
Jacob's ladder is the law. The law is your way to God. OMG. Why is this so hard to understand?? We - Jews and gentiles - all wrestle with the interpretation of the law.
11:16 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
No one can be trusted completely.
11:17 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
Some friends can be trusted with your secrets but not with your money or daughter.
11:17 AM
@alohm
The only metaphysical trust is in the Lord not in earthly powers or the promised potential of people?
11:18 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
At some level we have to trust in our judgement if it is based on conviction. Christians do not seem to be convinced that there is an afterlife with the crazy things they say eg Luke's universalism.
11:19 AM
@alohm
Godly Trust is Pistis Emunah, the earthy faith is another thing - One with F the other f?
11:19 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
We have to have faith that good will triumph over evil. That is all.
11:19 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
If we believe that good will triumph over evil, then we will get our shit together to speak truth to power.
11:19 AM
@βρεττς
#3
Yeah we trust people with as much as we know them. Not more
11:20 AM
@SeekingGenuine
#1
What’s the difference between trust and faith
11:20 AM
@SeekingGenuine
#1
This seems to be a confusion
11:20 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
@SeekingGenuine Nothing in practical terms.
11:20 AM
@alohm
but good does not triumph over evil - the evil is in us so evil will confront evil with our discernment in Deut 5.29 - To engage that heart of our hearts is tikkun olam...
11:21 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
@alohm So you don't believe in the afterlife?
11:21 AM
@βρεττς
#3
Know/Trust/Rely/Commit/Touch you don’t move to the next category before the previous one is higher
11:21 AM
@alohm
@SeekingGenuine That is a great word study - at one time they meant the same thing - a commitment in your path
11:21 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
@alohm You are Reform!
11:22 AM
@βρεττς
#3
Basically, you don’t rely on somebody more than you can trust them and you don’t trust them more than you know them
11:22 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
Shoulda woulda coulda ...
11:22 AM
@alohm
Trust as emanating from above -= so the trust we have in people is a result of their faith in something greater than themselves - You will know my faith thru my works?
11:23 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
@alohm No way are you an Orthodox Jew the way you talk.
11:23 AM
@SeekingGenuine
#1
Trust seems to be grounded in a more concrete or objectified or grasped and known entity, whereas faith seems to be a relinquish of the grasp
11:24 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
@AmIDriving Be binary, Scott. The binary code is a call to action. Putting everything in the category of maybe would have the effect of discouraging action.
11:24 AM
@alohm
@SeekingGenuine They are the same - you can try to add a difference but that is sematic - word games
11:24 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
@FungsiYukHunPo I despise mumbo jumbo and hocus pocus.
11:24 AM
@alohm
SOme of yall love to speak about people not to them?
11:25 AM
@SeekingGenuine
#1
@alohm yeah word games stay in the propositional
11:25 AM
@alohm
@SeekingGenuine and often used by the malevolent to blaspheme your faith because they lack the same
11:26 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#3
@alohm Reform Jews are considered heretics by Orthodox Jews.
11:27 AM
@SeekingGenuine
#1
@alohm yes, we love to use categories and terms to act for us
11:27 AM
@βρεττς
Check out the movie His Only Son
11:27 AM
@UpCycleClub
@SeekingGenuine It is difficult to express such things but I willl try. The “do ut des” model expresses trust, because it assumes reciprocity, but not faith, because faith doesn't depend on exchange.
11:27 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
@FungsiYukHunPo Most Western Christians understand virtually nothing about the burned and bloody history of Christianity because they have been kept in the dark by their lying governments.
11:28 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
@FungsiYukHunPo Gnosticism was snake oil Christianity before Christianity was established by Constantine.
11:28 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
@AmIDriving Don't you believe in the afterlife?
11:30 AM
@UpCycleClub
@alohm also Deuteronomy 31:6
11:30 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
Only God who rewards good and punishes evil in this life and the next would make it logical for us to believe that good will be rewarded and evil punished, measure for measure, eventually.
11:30 AM
@SeekingGenuine
#1
Afterlife or not, I think that’s not for me to be concerning myself with—it’s above my pay grade. I think Jesus calls us to be in the present moment and trust what will come will come
11:31 AM
@MaryamSafiyaKhan
#2
@FungsiYukHunPo Gnosticism was just hocus pocus and mumbo jumbo.
