18:00 The definition of morality is the Seven Noahide laws.
19:00 Is either America or Israel a righteous gentile nation? If neither even satisfies the minimum moral standards of righteous gentile nations set by the Noahide laws, whose fault is it? Jews or gentiles?
40:55
Claire Khaw
Do people falsely claim to believe in God?
42:13
Claire Khaw
There are so many kinds of Judaism, aren't there?
42:23
Claire Khaw
Isn't Judaism too hard for Jews?
46:37
Claire Khaw
Is the fact that only half the Jews in the world are observant Jews conclusive evidence that Judaism is now too hard for Jews?
47:20
Claire Khaw
If Jews had to be choose a gentile religion, is Islam the best choice because it is Judaism Lite?
47:47
Claire Khaw
Is Islam the best way for Jews to become Noahides and get to heaven the easier way?
48:26
Claire Khaw
Does Judaism generate hypocrisy because Judaism is too restrictive for Jews to follow, which explains why so many Jews are non-observant?
48:51
Claire Khaw
Would it be easier for Jews to properly teach the Noahide laws as Muslims?
54:15
Claire Khaw
Are you really just talking to yourself rather than hosting a Q&A?
58:52
Claire Khaw
Who is the rabbi you most admire?
59:06
Claire Khaw
Islam is Judaism Lite.
59:31
Claire Khaw
If God didn't think Judaism is too hard for Jews, He wouldn't have revealed the Koran.
59:53
Claire Khaw
If Judaism were not too hard for Jews, wouldn't Israel now be a theocracy?
1:00:00 If Muslims have their theocracy, why not Jews? Are Muslims better at obeying God's laws than Jews? Didn't God give Jews their homeland back after punishing them for being Reform Jews so Israel can be a theocracy again? Why would God mind if Jews in Israel followed the Koran which He also revealed but which would be easier for them as a starter/entry level theocracy? Wouldn't God be pleased if after Israel asked America for permission to become a theocracy and became a theocracy, America also became a theocracy? If America became a theocracy, wouldn't the rest of the Anglosphere also become theocracies? If the nations of Western imperialism became a theocracy, wouldn't Russia also become a theocracy? And if Russia became a theocracy, wouldn't China also become a theocracy? If the whole world followed the Koran in their own way, wouldn't the world be a better place than it is now being run under the principles of neoliberalism ie endless foreign wars and neoconservatism ie uncontrolled mass immigration about to blunder into WW3?
1:00:46
Claire Khaw
Wouldn't Jews be better off living under sharia?
1:01:00 Aren't Muslims Noahides?
1:01:59
Claire Khaw
The Israeli government should conduct a referendum on whether Israel should be a Torah theocracy or adopt Secular Koranism. If Islam is Judaism Lite, Secular Koranism is Islam Lite.
1:02:00 What makes you so sure Islam is a fake religion?
1:02:35
Claire Khaw
If Israel adopted Secular Koranism, Israel would get on better with its Muslim neighbours and the Palestinian problem would disappear in a puff of smoke.
1:02:47
Tara Carr
I'm confused. How does a Jew become a Noahide? That is a non-religious Jew. That gets a punishment not a reward
1:03:55
Claire Khaw
@Tara Carr There are only two religions acceptable to God: the religion of the Torah and the religion of the Koran. The latter does not have 36 capital offences and sharia theocracies exist now.
1:04:49
Tara Carr
Anti-semitism has been around for too long; there are many reasons: some logical some spiritual. Moving away from Torah Judiasm --> more anti-semitism.
1:05:12
Claire Khaw
@Tara Carr A Jew could convert to Islam, marry a righteous gentile spouse and have righteous gentile offspring.
1:05:29
Claire Khaw
How do you know the Koran is false?
1:05:38
Tara Carr
You are encouraging people to commit spiritual dealth
1:05:49
Claire Khaw
Are you saying there are no Noahide religions?
1:06:06
Claire Khaw
@Tara Carr What do you mean by "spiritual death"?
1:06:14
Tara Carr
Watch Rabbi Mizrahi's Torah and Science and you will see why
The Jewish nation is tiny. More righteous Jews are needed! It is not too hard, because people have done it in the past and still do it, so it can be done. Also, Yom Kippur exists for a reason. One cannot also negate the role of the Holocaust in the psyche of the Jewish nation in causing some to turn away from Judaism - a complicated topic. Right now, I would say the issue is ignorance, people not knowing about Judaism (rewards and consequences), its beauty and profound depth as a source of meaning and happiness, and prioritizing other things in life than living a holy life, unfortunately. There is an evil inclination, our task is to consider our lives a test and how to overcome this inclination to become the best version of ourselves. We will fall and yet we can still keep trying...until the last breath. We will then be judged on this by that creator who gave us our life's breath.
ReplyDeleteFor what it is worth, I think Judaism and Islam are bookends in that the Koran refers to the Torah and Judaism itself acknowledges that it is possible for gentiles to get to heaven with their less Noahide laws.
ReplyDeleteNothing in the Torah says God would not make a better revelation for gentiles.
Why would gentiles accept a deity that does not sufficiently care about them to give them their own revelation?
Let us assume that this second and final revelation must be the Koran then because it refers to the Torah and accepts the prophets of both the Old and New Testament.
Does it say anywhere in the Torah that God would never make a second and better revelation to gentiles?
Is it enough for humanity just to have the Torah when half the Jews in existence and in Israel are not observant Jews and don't want to be?
Do the laws of Israel satisfy the minimum moral conditions of the Noahide laws?
Do Jews ever ask themselves if America is a righteous gentile nation?
How can America be said to be a righteous gentile nation if it practises neoconservatism and neoliberalism rejected by Trump and his voters twice?
How can America be said to be a righteous nation if the American establishment conspired to steal and did steal the election from Trump and his voters?
If the conceptual idol of America was democracy rather than Christianity, then the American political establishment has desecrated its own idol by stealing the election from Trump.
How can America with its promotion of gay marriage and transgenderism which are the policies of Sodom and Gomorrah be said to be a righteous gentile nation?
I don't know about the types of Judaism. There are branches or strains (reform, conservative etc.) but they are losing members except Torah-observing groups. Sephardic Jewish congregations (in the US) usually do not say a branch though, but some may say they are orthodox which helps indicate a level of observance to potential members or visitors.
ReplyDeleteThe most authentic Jew must be the ones prepared to complete the mission for which God made Jews His Chosen People. Presumably, they were chosen to do something, and this must be to teach properly the Noahide laws, which they have not done properly for 2000 years.
ReplyDeleteSaying the Koran is false has been said by others by greater minds than myself. I could look to find resources with their arguments and get them to you. I think false may not be the best term as it is triggering. The question may be better put: is the Koran a 100% divine book? From Rabbi Mizrachi's lectures (and I get it that his style and messages are controversial) and many other Rabbis and texts, we gather that of all the religious texts, the Torah was the only one given in a public event to millions of people. It has been reproduced with complete fidelity for thousands of years in the Jewish Diaspora, from people with no communication among themselves for hundreds or even thousands of years like Cochin Indians or Yemeni or Polish. Other religious books were revealed to 1 person with no corroboration. From one religion in particular, we might consider that the "revelation" might have been to prevent their killing from being unfaithful to their spouse. So, there is a 50% chance the claims may or may not be true. In courts of law, when you have multiple, in the millions, of eye-witnesses, that will be taken as having more veracity over the testimony that one person claims was revealed to them.
ReplyDeleteThe Koran acknowledges the Torah. The question to be answered here is why wouldn't God give gentiles their own revelation?
ReplyDeleteWhat is the authority for the proposition that God would not give gentiles their own revelation when Jews are only 0.1% of humanity?
Does God think the Torah is sufficient guidance for humanity?
How can the Torah be sufficient guidance when half the Jews in the world are non-observant?
How can the Torah be sufficient guidance when Jews fear their Christian overlords and Israel is but a Western colonial outpost?
How can the Torah be sufficient guidance when Israel does not satisfy even the minimum moral standards of being a righteous gentile nation?
Have you read the Koran?
If you have not, why not?
If you never intend to read it, why not?
Have you been told not to read it?
If you have been told not to read it by a rabbi, what do you think was the reason?
Is the reason why rabbis tell Jews not to read the Koran because they are terrified of Jews converting to Islam to get to heaven the easier way?
Why won't rabbis rank the four gentile religions according to their conformity with the Noahide laws making Islam the most and Christianity the least Noahide?
Is this refusal mainly fear of offending their Christian overlords or Islamophobia or a mixture of both?
If God made Jews His Chosen People to properly teach the Noahide laws to gentiles, is this persistent refusal by rabbis to rank the four gentile religions according to their conformity with the Noahide laws defiance of God?
We know that both Islam and Christianity both post-date Judaism, and rely on the Torah to be true. Judaism doesn't need Islam or Xtianity to be true for it to be true, but the latter do need Judaism to be true. If Jews were given the law by G-d and told what to do and not to do (to my knowledge it was not a contract for 2000 years and then do whatever you feel but rather an eternal contract), we presume that the laws are still to be followed. I am not so sure about the time periods on when according to Judaism, the age of prophecy when G-d revealed himself to man started and ended, but to my knowledge the Koran was written out of that period. Again, I am not a Rabbi, but these are points worth considering...I am not Muslim, but growing up I saw and knew some in my city. I appreciate and know their devotion to G-d is immense. I would never say or feel otherwise! It is just not permitted by Jewish law for a Jew to be Muslim or marry one. Could it be an easier system to follow? Perhaps. Would the Jewish person find "happiness" and "fulfillment" doing this? With limited knowledge of Judaism or fear of G-D, probably yes. Does it follow G-d's law? No.
ReplyDeleteEven if Jews do think Islam is quite Noahide enough for them because the Koran does not in fact punish idolatry and blasphemy, the fact remains that Islam is the most Noahide of all gentile religions and for this reason should be commended to gentiles by rabbis after also pointing out that that Christianity is the least Noahide, even less Noahide than Hinduism which is only idolatry while Christianity is both idolatry and blasphemy.
ReplyDeleteThere is no point fretting about which is true since no one alive will know if God really exists. What can be concluded through reasoning is that if God revealed both the Torah and Koran, the Koran is the less restrictive theocracy because it does not have 36 capital offences while still guaranteeing freedom of belief with https://quran.com/2/256 the basis of the First Amendment.
There is a good deal written about anti-semitism. It has been written/said that the more Jews move away from following Jewish law, punishments arise. So, there is a spiritual component to anti-semitism. There is also an endemic anti-semitism in the world, and Jews even when "assimilated" are still viewed as other in many societies. It may seem like a good idea for Israel to become Muslim or Secular Islam or Buddhist or whatever, but I doubt it. It may (or not) stem or stave off some obvious worldly conflict/issues, but it would really mean the end of the Jewish people and not just here on earth.
ReplyDeleteI just don't see how Secular Koranism applied and interpreted by Jewish lawyers in their Jewish state would mean the end of the Jewish people when the Koran in fact guarantees freedom of belief with 2:256.
ReplyDeleteThe Israeli constitution could even stipulate that only Jews can enter the legal profession and judiciary to interpret the Koran and apply its principles.
Rabbi Mizrachi said in one of his lectures that Jewish parents in Islamic Iran had a better chance of bringing up good Jewish children in touch with their traditions than Jewish parents living in Israel or the West.
I think Israeli Jews that are secular need to have a humble heart and consider the wisdom of the sages and religious communities rather than thinking that modernity is the cure to all of humanity's ills when we see the psyche of most people in the modern world is depressed, angry, bitter and/or confused. Religious Jews are not all doom and gloom, backward loons (as I was led to believe growing up) who keep kosher because they never took a microbiology course. You mentioned sneering towards other religions. I agree somewhat. I think there is tension among some religious towards the non-religious - not always, but sometimes, so I will agree with you that it may come across as sneering, although it may not be that rather just seems like that. So, perhaps we should all be seeking humility and recognize that we are all trying to follow and live up to the expectations of our creator whether we know it or not consciously. That may require examining all that we were ever taught and asking if these things truly hold up to robust substantial inquiry.
ReplyDeleteOf course most people think their religion is best, but Jews in particular are required to think about theirs because they are constantly being reminded of their Jewish identity as God's Chosen People and because of antisemitism.
ReplyDeleteIf antisemitism was created by God to remind Jews to do what He made them His Chosen People to do, then perhaps it is a good thing that they be reminded because of what God wants them to do is in fact civilise the world by lighting the way for gentile nations to become righteous gentile nations through following the divine guidance of the Koran, which is also believed to come from God.
Whether rabbis approve of Islam or not, it is still the most Noahide of all gentile religions and whatever feelings about Muslims Jews have, Islam must be what rabbis must commend to gentiles, particularly gentiles of the West whose Christianity and Liberalism have failed but who still run a global empire.
I think that you have amazing questions and I respect your quest for truth and answers! I am limited in my knowledge (I am a student of truth though like I think you are) and know my limitations, so I would still advise you to seek a knowledgeable religious Rabbi, maybe physically near to you who can answer your interesting questions about Judaism. Sometimes we don't like the messenger, but need to ask: is there truth in the message? I completely agree that Noahides need more attention and direction. It is just hard to expect that from Rabbis though who are so stretched-thin from reaching non-religious Jews.
ReplyDeleteI have been asking rabbis about the Noahide laws and my impression is that they are basically not prepared to be seen to be promoting the religion of Muslims and in any case don't want to offend their American overlords by pointing out the idolatry and blasphemy of Christianity.
ReplyDeleteI know someone from an Irish Catholic background who was a Noahide and then realised he had to convert to Judaism or else be treated as second class by rabbis.
If he were not such an Islamophobe, he could have converted to Islam. It is crazy for gentiles to think rabbis have the time to deal with them and their spiritual needs.
Even if these Noahides get their own rabbi, they would feel that such a rabbi would be a reject of Jews and thereby feel second class in a different way.
The solution is obviously Islam, but rabbis refuse to say this.
The fact is that gentile Westerners cannot prevent themselves from becoming failed states if they do not have a functioning moral system at least effective at maintaining minimum standards of sexual morality ie ensuring that most parents in their society are married parents.
What do you think about this group in Texas and Rabbi Oury Cherki? https://noahideworldcenter.org/category/articles/faith-and-ethics/
ReplyDeleteMy questions in response to your question are as follows:
ReplyDelete1) Why would gentiles use rabbinically-guided Noahidism when they already know that only half the Jews in existence are observant Jews?
2) Why would they trust rabbis to look after their spiritual interests when they already know that rabbis have no time for them and regard them as second class?
3) Why would gentiles trust in rabbis to guide them when rabbis have failed to teach half the Jews in existence the Noahide laws?
4) Why would gentiles trust in rabbis to guide them when Israel itself does not conform to the minimum moral standards of the Noahide laws?
5) Why would gentiles do any of the above when they already know they have their own scripture ie the Koran from the same God who revealed the Torah?
6) Wouldn't the only gentiles who would submit to being treated as second class by rabbis they already know must be overstretched and do not have their interests at heart be gentiles who are Islamophobic enough to submit to being treated by rabbis as in theory and in practice second class just to avoid becoming Muslim?
For a Jew, not abiding by Jewish law, is spiritual suicide. A gentile is not commanded to abide by Jewish law. But a Jew cannot follow a "Noahide Religion" however wonderful it may be. Yes, a path to heaven is open to all but the steps are different. A Jew taking the non-Jewish path doesn't get there.
ReplyDeleteSecular Koranism is not actually a belief system ie not a religion, but an integrated moral and legal political system guaranteeing freedom of belief with https://quran.com/2/256
ReplyDeleteThe Torah was offered to all other nations before the Children of Israel, but the other nations did not accept it. Other nations cannot be jealous now, they had a chance. They still do have a chance "to go to heaven". If someone wants to put the yoke of the Torah on themselves, they can convert to Judaism, or just follow the Noahide laws.
ReplyDeleteIslam is a Noahide religion, isn't it?
ReplyDeleteWhy just a second revelation? Why not a third fourth fifth to each nation?
ReplyDeleteThere are only two revelations - the first and the final - from the Abrahamic God because He divided humanity into Jews and gentiles.
ReplyDeleteOther religions also refer to the Torah. I don't see the "New Testament" figures as valid (JC as an idol is not OK, calling him a prophet also not OK from a Jewish perspective). The Koran may bring hope and solace and comfort and inspiration to connect with Hashem. My only question is it divinely inspired?
ReplyDeleteProphecies after Malachi are not valid. To be fair, I am not so familiar with the Koran, (I see that is a question later) - I read it in high school many many many many moons ago! There are some contradictions such as confusing Mary the mother of Jesus [Miriam in Hebrew] with Miriam the sister of Aaron and Moses, and daughter of Amram which is about 1400 years off. Some explanations were presented as to why this might be, but this account did a good job of explaining why the refutations do not hold: https://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/qbhc06.html
Secular Koranism is not interested in the minutiae of the narratives, but in whether the laws in the Koran are considered Noahide. If its laws are not considered Noahide, why not and which ones?
ReplyDeleteObviously, Israel is the Jewish homeland however, not all Jews live in Israel. Worldwide, including in Israel, over the last decades we can really see a huge movement right now: the Baal Teshuva moment. Many secular Jewish people are returning to more "orthodox" practice. As we move to the Messianic age, you will see more of this return and gentiles too becoming more interested in spirituality. Like I said previously, the Holocaust is still traumantic for the Jewish psyche. Also, the rise of secularism in the West has damaged so many people, not just Jews but gentiles too. In the US, too many people have no spiritual or moral or ethical or religious grounding. But, I see lots of Jewish youth getting really inspired at the Chabad House and Aish and more kiruv groups. It takes thousands of years to acquire knowledge and wisdom, a generation to lose it unfortunately. A long road is ahead for those returning to true observance. G-d will surely help those who want to follow his commandments.
ReplyDeleteIf God has already made a second and final revelation to gentiles, isn't it the duty of Jews to point this out to the Post Christian Westerner who no longer has a functioning moral and political system?
ReplyDeleteRabbi Lapin and Dennis Prager make great podcasts about the JudeoXtian foundings of the nation that made it great, and the erosion of those values are leading us into a horrible place. I may not agree with the Xtianity part, but I can see how powerful and important those values are/were to our civilization. Many founding fathers read Hebrew and were familiar with the Jewish scriptures. IMO, it's a really scary place to be in in the US at the moment, not physically - big houses, new cars, tons of malls - but we are going down the tubes in morality big time.
ReplyDeleteAre you aware that there is a White House Koran which belonged to Thomas Jefferson?
ReplyDeleteSo, as for being the "Chosen People"... Jews were like the last kid left to be picked for a sports team after everyone else walked away. They are supposed to keep the commandments fully. If all Jews did this, the physical world and the test would end. So, that's the Jewish mission. Yes, they are also supposed to be a light unto other nations. Rabbis do teach the Noahide laws and you are familiar with Rabbis who do this. Noahides also have to be receptive to learning from Jews. It's hard to teach people who are driving you out of their countries, killing you, burning down your communities, and blaming you for all of their financial, social, and religious woes, and last but not least killing their "Messiah." Luckily, as we move to the Messianic age, more people will turn to Jews and seek knowledge. More Jews will return to Judaism and also teach others. It should be noted that Noahides need to be responsible for their own learning, setting up their own courts and laws etc. The US seemed to be doing good and a righteous gentile country, but other places will probably be centers of enlightenment, probably not in the West, if current events are used for predictions.
ReplyDeleteCan rabbis be said to be properly teaching the Noahide laws when Christians still don't get it about idolatry and blasphemy?
ReplyDeleteIf antisemitism is on the rise, isn't it because rabbis have not yet pointed out to Christians that Christianity is idolatry and blasphemy?
If Jews were made God's Chosen People to serve humanity, but suffer from antisemitism, isn't it because they have not once in the 2000 year history of Christianity ever tried to inform a Christian monarch or a Christian religious leader that Christianity is idolatry and blasphemy?
The longer Jews refuse to fulfil their obligation to gentiles, the longer antisemitism will continue to exist, particularly if gentiles continue to suffer from bad government caused by the oppression of their corrupt and incompetent leaders who are nihilists and atheists pretending to be idolaters and blasphemers ie Christians.
Saying the Koran is false has been said by others by greater minds than myself. I could look to find resources with their arguments and get them to you. I think false may not be the best term as it is triggering.
ReplyDeleteI know this is what Jews say to each other. After all, if Jews acknowledged that the Koran is the second and final revelation from the Abrahamic God to humanity and anyone Muslim can get to a more seductive heaven in the next life while suffering fewer restrictions in this life, there is a danger of Jews converting en masse, the consequence of which is that synagogues would be empty and rabbis redundant!
ReplyDeleteIt is actually my position that Islam will be the reward of Jews who do what they they were made God's Chosen People to do: rank the four gentile religions according to their conformity with the Noahide laws so that Christians know that their shituf is worse than than the avodah zarah of Christianity.
This is presumably why rabbis tell their congregation that the Koran is false or not Noahide so they stay in the fold of Judaism.
The question may be better put: is the Koran a 100% divine book? From Rabbi Mizrachi's lectures (and I get it that his style and messages are controversial) and many other Rabbis and texts, we gather that of all the religious texts, the Torah was the only one given in a public event to millions of people. It has been reproduced with complete fidelity for thousands of years in the Jewish Diaspora, from people with no communication among themselves for hundreds or even thousands of years like Cochin Indians or Yemeni or Polish. Other religious books were revealed to 1 person with no corroboration. From one religion in particular, we might consider that the "revelation" might have been to prevent their killing from being unfaithful to their spouse. So, there is a 50% chance the claims may or may not be true. In courts of law, when you have multiple, in the millions, of eye-witnesses, that will be taken as having more veracity over the testimony that one person claims was revealed to them.
ReplyDeleteI am really only interested in the moral basis of our laws and I think the Noahide laws are fair enough.
ReplyDeleteI am using the Koran because I think it is the best available guide to humanity, not because I believe in God or think everything in it is true.
America and its allies - being nominally Christian - are without a functioning moral and political system whose incompetent and corrupt politicians are suffering from degeneracy, amnesia and dementia. The West is therefore in danger of starting another World War in which many Jews and gentiles will also suffer.
It is obvious that the Noahide laws were created to rank gentile religions and any political ideology and moral system according to their conformity with the Noahide laws. My proposal makes the most sense and is the most constructive, however much rabbis pretend not to understand what I am saying because they do not want to do what I am proposing.
They don't want to do now what they have not done for 2000 years because to do it now would make people ask "Why didn't you do it before?"
Even that would be useful because that would generate a dialogue, but it seems rabbis in fact prefer to let sleeping Christian dogs lie.
But their fear is misplaced because Christians are in fact extinct. Those who only identify as Christians only pretend to believe as a cloak for their antisemitism and Islamophobia because Christianity legitimises their hatred and fear of Jews and Muslims.
Rabbis could even discuss what I propose amongst themselves, but I imagine they are more focused on trying to forget what I have said than wondering whether what I have said is true and what they should do about it.
Rabbis have in fact been kicking the can of the Noahide laws down the road for 2000 years.
The soonest they could have challenged Christianity in America was after the First Amendment was passed, in theory.
The soonest they could have challenged Christianity in France was after the success of the French Revolution, in particular after Napoleon converted to Islam.
The Russian Revolution represented yet another European rejection of Christianity and monarchy.
The late Rabbi Schneerson - believed by some Jews to be the Messiah - encouraged Jews to teach gentiles the Noahide laws in the 1980s.
It is probable that Jews, Christians and Muslims only pretend to believe in God. If they really did believe in God, they would have asked all the right questions ie the ones I have asked and got their answers by now.
We act according to our beliefs and the most important belief is whether we think we will be rewarded or punished if we do something. Would we be rewarded or punished in the long and short term?
What is the long term is different to atheists and theists, isn't it?
Atheists think the long term is any time up to the end of their life. Theists think the long term only arrives after they are dead when they discover what kind of afterlife they are to have.
It appears that even for many rabbis, their gaze is not focused on their olam haba. They would only be focused on that if they really believed there exists God to punish or reward them in the afterlife.
In the meantime, being Jewish is just a lifestyle choice.
I do understand that rabbis would resent me pointing out that Jews have never once in 2000 years of Christian history asked Christian monarchs or religious leaders how and why Christianity not the idolatry and blasphemy forbidden by in the Ten Commandments and the Seven Noahide laws.
Rabbinical responses I have had so far:
ReplyDelete1) I have no right to ask these questions because I am not Jewish.
2) I have no right to ask these questions because I am agnostic.
3) Even if I am right, I can't make rabbis rank the gentile religions.
4) Ranking the gentile religions would cause even more antisemitism.
5) Rabbis because of their hatred and fear of Christians don't even want to correct them because they want them to suffer from their idolatry and blasphemy.
6) Rabbis because of their hatred and fear of Muslims don't want to be seen to be promoting the religion of Muslims whom they hate and fear.
7) They don't think anyone would listen to them anyway.
I think the Jewish nation was not so small relative to other nations when given the Torah but is a small nation now comparatively. If Jews did not intermarry and stayed religious, the nation might be as large as the Chinese or Indian populations.
ReplyDeleteI don't think there is any requirement for Jews to be numerous as long as they do what they are supposed to do and properly teach the Noahide laws to gentiles and rank the four gentile religions according to their conformity with the Noahide laws. Once they do the right thing, everything will fall into place.
ReplyDeleteI am not on a spiritual high level. I am barely figuring things out. Perhaps, secular Jews fear "Xtian" overlords and kowtow to Europe and the US. I do know that really religious people only fear G-d, truly, because the events of life are messages/signs from G-d. Israel needs to be a truly Jewish nation IMO, not only for Jews, but according to Jewish law. This will happen when the Messiah comes. I believe that Noahides have always been welcome.
ReplyDeleteIsrael of all countries should be a theocracy if indeed Israel is meant to be a light unto nations. If Israeli Jews do not think they are up to a Torah theocracy with 36 capital offences, they can always adopt a starter/entry level theocracy that is Secular Koranism which guarantees freedom of belief with https://quran.com/2/256 This is what gentile Western nations should be adopting anyway since Christianity is kaput and has been kaput for so long now that it was replaced by liberalism which is now also kaput!
ReplyDeleteWe all know Xtianity is truly a sham. Why bother with this? Also, most is irrelevant if it is not divinely inspired.
ReplyDeleteWhat about the rest of the country though? Don't other Americans need a moral system and don't their laws also need to be based on an established moral system?
ReplyDeleteI am not a Rabbi, so I cannot tell you if the practices laid out in the Koran are 100% in accordance with Noahide laws. You have a wonderful gift and passion. It seems you should reach out to non-Jews and teach them about the Noahide laws.
ReplyDeleteI have already done this, but, as you know, antisemites would reject the Noahide laws just because they are Jewish while blaming Jews for everything that has gone wrong with their country.
ReplyDeleteRabbis often get paid by other Jews to be taught Hebrew and religious classes. Noahides may also have to invest in study with a Rabbi. As I mentioned, most are overworked and underpaid.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't it just be easier to get Post-Christian gentiles to remoralise themselves by adopting a Noahide religion ie Islam? There is a verse in the Koran that says God will not burden a soul with more than it can bear, and I am sure it also includes Jewish souls burdened with the oppressive task of teaching properly the Noahide laws to rabid raging antisemites!
ReplyDeleteThere are of course Muslims who reject the authority of Jews to tell them anything since they haven't been living in their own theocracy for 2000 years and show no signs of wanting to do so, so they also reject the Noahide laws on principle and say they don't need them when they already have the Koran. And of course they think Jews have conspired with Christians against Muslims.
I don't know if anti-semitism was created by G-d but it is a reminder of Jewishness, all things not by nature are messages from G-d. There may be punishments for not following Jewish law closely enough or other things. We will not know why things happened until the end. The chosen people label makes it seem that Jews were chosen first, but they were chosen last.
ReplyDeleteIf a Jew lights the way, who is responsible for keeping the candle lit?
After Jews light the way for gentiles to the Koran which is Noahide, they will no longer be burdened with that task!
ReplyDeleteI think for a moral system to be followed long-term by G-d, it needs to be from G-d, or at a minimum, perceived to be from G-d. The reason I bring this point up is because you want Rabbis to buy-into this system or approve it, but part of the system relies on a book making claims of divine revelation. The laws may be considered Noahide; but, to what extent are 'would be' non-Muslim followers willing to accept that the revelations or text are not considered revelations from G-d and be ok with that?
ReplyDeleteWhy would non-Muslims want to be treated as second class by overworked rabbis who in reality prefer to minister to other Jews rather than gentiles?
ReplyDeleteI know there are gentiles who would rather have rabbinically-guided Noahidism than become Muslims, but that must be due to Islamophobia.
To suffer from a phobia is to have an irrational hatred and fear.
It is obviously irrational to prefer to be treated as second class by rabbis who don't even care about you when you already have divine revelation just for you from the Abrahamic God who also revealed the Torah to Jews, which you reject for reasons of Islamophobia.
Why would they need the Koran and not just derive a new Noahide system?
ReplyDeleteThe Koran already has the higher status of being divine revelation while a new Noahide system would just be made up by rabbis, wouldn't it?
ReplyDeleteHow would a Rabbi be able to approve a book or system based upon a book that claims to be from G-d when according to Judaism, that would be a lie since its revelations happened after what is deemed the period of prophecy?
ReplyDeleteRabbis who hate Islam and Muslims can easily make up excuses to reject Islam.
ReplyDeleteWhat would be a lie?
Are you calling the Koran a lie?
Is this what the rabbis you know routinely say about the Koran?
If so, have these rabbis actually read it?
All rabbis have to do is declare Islam to be the most Noahide of all gentile religions, which they refuse to do because of their Islamophobia. What is more Noahide than Islam if Islam is not Noahide enough for them?
What is this "period of prophecy" to which you refer?
This is your supposition that the Koran is the second revelation. If that is not shared by the wider Jewish religious thought-leaders, then pointing this out to gentiles would not be regarded as a duty.
ReplyDeleteSo Jews have no duty to teach properly to gentiles the Noahide laws?
ReplyDeleteAt this point I don't see what more Rabbis could/should do.
ReplyDeleteThey just have to rank the four gentile religions according to their conformity with the Noahide laws making Islam the most and Christianity the least Noahide.
ReplyDeleteA cursory Google search, available to the majority of people in the West, can pull up countless writings on the Noahide Laws, what they are and further explanation.
ReplyDeleteLike I mentioned, there are many well-known Rabbis who discuss the failings of the post-christian/pseudo communist West. They are shut out, like other people decrying our state of being, as they wield no power.
ReplyDeleteWho are these rabbis?
ReplyDeleteOur political system is corrupt and rotting. There is no fear of G-d, which is the minimum requirement, to persuade politicians/people to change their horrible ways.
ReplyDeleteSo this means rabbis have not taught properly the Noahide laws to gentiles, but it is not too late to start now. They can most quickly and effectively do that by ranking the four gentile religions according to their conformity with the Noahide laws making Islam the most and Christianity the least Noahide.
ReplyDeleteAlso, you may be right about the fear of backlash from tongue-lashing Xtianity. As I pointed out, from historical events, this fear is warranted! Maybe as more Jews become religious, Xtians will question their own religion.
ReplyDeleteCan we afford to do this? How many generations will this take? If Christians have't understood the extent and enormity of their idolatry and blasphemy, it is because neither Jews nor Muslims have pointed this out to them for 2000 years, isn't it? Don't you think getting rabbis to rank the four gentile according to their conformity with the Noahide laws would most quickly and effectively make the point that Islam is top of the tree and Christianity bottom of the heap, worse even than Hinduism which is merely idolatry, while Christianity is both idolatry and blasphemy?
ReplyDeleteI still see tons of comments online all the time from Xtians saying how lost Orthodox Jews are and they need to believe in JC....
ReplyDeleteAre you aware that Jews in Israel are now being converted to Christianity to trigger the Second Coming? Rabbi Singer is always complaining about this.
ReplyDeleteAre you aware that there is a White House Koran which belonged to Thomas Jefferson?
I have heard this before, yes! Obviously, US history has dark and horrible periods, but our founders were G-d fearing men.
ReplyDeleteAre you saying that the fact that Thomas Jefferson owned the Koran is an example of a dark and horrible period of American history and it was a dark and horrible act for Jefferson to have bought and read the Koran?
ReplyDeleteCan rabbis be said to be properly teaching the Noahide laws when Christians still don't get it about idolatry and blasphemy?
Xtians are in a cult like Leftists. I think there is nothing that can be done overall rather it requires the individual to have some introspection.
ReplyDeleteAll that is required is for Orthodox rabbis to rank the four gentile religions according to their conformity with the Noahide laws and post their ranking on social media with a list of the names of rabbis who have done this published it in the Hamodia in a Roll of Honour.
ReplyDeleteIf antisemitism is on the rise, isn't it because rabbis have not yet pointed out to Christians that Christianity is idolatry and blasphemy?
It has been and still is done but...there is a fine line because too much hardlining would probably lead to more anti-semitism.
ReplyDeleteHave you heard of the Jewish obligation of Kiddush Hashem?
ReplyDeleteIf the priority is making more Jews religious, then it would make more sense to strategize that rather than the former.
ReplyDeleteFor what it's worth, I think it is more important that Jews do what they are supposed to do rather than increase in number but do do what they were chosen by God to do.
ReplyDeletePresumably, it is an honour to be a Jew because of the higher status of being God's Chosen People, which comes with a burden of responsibility ie to properly teach the Noahide laws to gentiles and suffering punishment if this is not done properly or at all.
The task seems almost like trying to catch a deluge in a paper cup. Just like when you try to engage with hard-core leftists. Xtians like hard core leftists need to do inner work.
ReplyDeleteChristians won't get the message that Christianity is the religion of idolaters and blasphemers in denial that they are idolaters and blasphemers until and unless the are told by Orthodox rabbis clearly and emphatically that their religion is the least Noahide of all the four gentile world religions.
ReplyDeleteInformation and tools are readily available. In my case, I had to ask myself: why do I believe what I believe? Is it possible that I am wrong? I told myself that if what I believe is 'true' then cross-examining it should be no problem. I did that and had to totally reimagine myself, identity, political and religious affinities. Then I realized that I had wasted time, money and energy. But, I was grateful that I at least was able to see my mistakes before it was too late. Like that saying goes: it is easier to fool people than convince them that they have been fooled. Who really wants to admit they have been wrong? their parents? their grandparents!?! What Xtian pastor/priest whatever wants to admit they have led millions astray? A rebuke from Rabbis is enough to cause this system to fall? Doubtful.
ReplyDeleteAre you suggesting that the thing should only be done if success is guaranteed, rather than because of the principle of the thing?
ReplyDeleteDoesn't Judaism have something to say about the principle of the thing?
Doesn't acting on principle mean that you follow it whether you are rewarded or punished?
It is actually my position that Islam will be the reward of Jews who do what they they were made God's Chosen People to do: rank the four gentile religions according to their conformity with the Noahide laws so that Christians know that their shituf is worse than than the avodah zarah of Christianity. This is presumably why rabbis tell their congregation that the Koran is false or not Noahide so
It is enough to say that Islam is monotheistic and Xtianity is paganism/polytheistic. Anyone with at least one functioning neuron can read between the lines. IMHO, most non-Xtians, Jewish people know this (Muslims obviously do).
ReplyDeleteNothing is really obvious until it is pointed out again and again and again.
ReplyDeleteOrthodox rabbis have hidden behind Reform rabbis who are more prominent and numerous than they are, and allowed these heretics to speak for them. You already know Christians cannot comprehend even the concept of idolatry or recognise the plain meaning of words. They are in denial and wish to remain in denial about their idolatry and blasphemy, and I totally get it that Orthodox rabbis are happy to let sleeping Christian dogs lie, but perhaps God if He exists disapproves, when He specially made Jews His Chosen People to properly teach the Noahide laws to gentiles by declaring that Islam is most and Christianity least Noahide and that the shituf of Christianity is worse than the avodah zarah of Hinduism.
There are some Jewish people who convert to Islam, maybe becuse they believe in it but more likely they just found a community or romantic love. I believe however, that most Jews would not choose this. There is too much strife/tension/history between the Jewish and Arab, Muslim world. Yes, in Israel there are Arab Israelis, but people really hunker down in their identity. Even secular people who seemingly want to run away from their Jewish identity would not embrace a Muslim identity, moral code, however you wish to frame it.
ReplyDeleteI am aware that many Westerners have a visceral loathing of Muslims whom they regard as backward and barbaric for a combination of racial and ideological reasons.
ReplyDeleteChristian antisemitism technically includes Muslim Arabs as Arabs are also a Semitic people. The hatred is probably more rooted in Jews and Muslims being agreed on the oneness of God while Christians worship a crucified Jew as the co-equal of God.
I have to keep reminding people that I am not Muslim, but agnostic.
I also need to keep reminding people that Secular Koranism is not belief system ie it is not a religion. It is just an integrated moral and legal political system that non-Muslims can use.
I am sorry to be such a bore, but I feel I need you to understand this, or you will keep thinking I am asking Jews to convert to Islam when I am not even Muslim myself.
There is no need to be Muslim to operate Secular Koranism.
If it is any comfort to you, many Muslims hate it, but their hatred is useful because their hatred shows that Secular Koranism is different to their kind of Islam.
Non-Muslim Westerners of every race, nation and religion would support Secular Koranism if they want the social conservatism they can no longer get in the West because Western nations now operate on the principles BLM/intersectional feminism.
The EU law is a legal system.
You don't have to be in favour of the EU to study it as a legal system and you don't have to agree with its founding principles to operate EU law, in just the same way that lawyers do no not agree with every law in the land but as their profession advise their clients how to make the law work for them.
If you do not understand the premise of Secular Koranism ie that it is a legal system that guarantees freedom of belief, you will keep thinking I am expecting people to convert to Islam, not so!
The late Lubavitcher Rebbe and thanks to him Jewish outreach is growing. My family met a Chabad Rabbi on a vacation 4 years ago and it turned my world upside down. Many followers did believe this - while he was alive- some still do, but it is against Jewish law, and this is not looked upon or spoken about favorably.
ReplyDeleteI understand that Education and Sharing Day in America is dedicated to Rabbi Schneerson. I imagine many Jews who do not want to teach the Noahide laws to gentiles will be pretending that everything he said about everything was wrong, particularly what he said about Jews being obligated to teach properly the Noahide laws to gentiles.
ReplyDeleteI am using the Koran because I think it is the best available guide to humanity, not because I believe in God or think everything in it is true.
This is admirable and potentially true. I cannot give you a go ahead. Have you found any contradictions or inconsistencies in the Hebrew -language Torah?
ReplyDeleteI have explained that I believe that the Koran is the best available guide to humanity. It is obviously more suitable for gentiles because the Torah is addressed to Jews rather than gentiles and does not have 36 capital offences.
ReplyDeleteAs an agnostic, I would say it makes sense to worship the most powerful deity conceivable who has revealed a universal scripture for humanity, rather than just to one tribe, race or nation, particularly when its laws are less harsh than the Torah.
In the Koran, the gentile has a bespoke suit.
If the gentile were to use the Torah, he would have to alter a suit that was never intended for him.
Why would a gentile reject the Koran in favour of the Torah unless it was for reasons of racism, Islamophobia, chauvinism and other irrational and immoral reasons?
Also, while Jews have not lived in their own theocracy for 2000 years, Muslims still run six sharia theocracies in the 21st century.
To ask ourselves about the truth of the Torah or the Koran is to ask ourselves the wrong question.
For gentiles who wish to worship the Abrahamic God without being guilty of idolatry and blasphemy, they just need to choose the most Noahide gentile religion supported by rabbinical rankings of the four gentile religion which unfortunately Orthodox rabbis are refusing to provide. We must ask ourselves why.
Is it because they hate gentiles and want to see them suffer oppression from their incompetent and corrupt politicians because of the past behaviour of Christians whose New Testament was actually document inciting antisemitism?
Is it because rabbis want the gentile nations whom they are citizens of become failed states, indifferent to the consequences to themselves?
Is it because they think the Messiah will finally arrive after WW3 which they could have prevented by ranking the four gentile religions with Islam ranked the most Noahide?
Is it because they fear Christians will hate them and hurt them for saying Christianity is idolatry and blasphemy?
Is it because they decline to perform their duty of Kiddush Hashem for the same reasons they decline to perform their duty to the gentile of properly teaching the Noahide laws?
Is it because they do not think God exists to punish them either in this life or the next for disobeying His commands?
If atheism is the real reason for Orthodox rabbis refusing to do the right thing ie ranking the four gentiles religions according to their conformity with the Noahide laws, wouldn't God if He exists be even angrier with Jews and punish them even more with even more antisemitism for falsely claiming to believe in Him just to acquire the status of being His Chosen People?
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-theocratic-governments-today.html
I'm not sure about your thoughts on the COVID-19 pandemic but something awry and sinister is afoot in my estimation. We are already in a major predicament, potentially another genocide of the the "unvaccinated" and I believe religious Jews will somehow also get wrapped up in the scapegoating. I cannot see how a Rabbi/ the Rabbis can do anything about this.
ReplyDeleteHow about this as an analogy:
ReplyDeleteYou are in a room with other people with an open window through which someone has thrown a grenade. In the few seconds you have left, do you just stand there and let it go off, or do you attempt to pick it up and throw it out of the window?
Isn't it for this job that Jews were made God's Chosen People?
Orthodox Jews are not even treated well in Israel sometimes. In the US, the mayor of New York called Orthodox Jews, superspreaders for going to a funeral, but praised BLM protestors for rioting in the streets and burning down the city.
ReplyDeleteIf Orthodox rabbis are not being well-treated by Jews in Israel, could it be punishment from God for not having been properly teaching the Noahide laws to Jews and gentiles by ranking the four gentle religions according to their conformity with the Noahide laws as they are were chosen by God to do?
ReplyDeleteIf YOU can help people become Noahides, I think that is great!
ReplyDeleteI will certainly do my best! Surely the best way to be a righteous gentile nation is to follow the laws of the Holy Book for a religion declared by Orthodox rabbis to be the most Noahide?
ReplyDeleteDespite the trope that Jews rule the world, mostly Jews have been seen as pariah's who killed JC. I agree with the list, not #1, 6 or 7 though. I don't believe there is Rabbinical hatred towards Xtianity or Islam, maybe frustration towards the former, more likely just hesitation because what you want seems pointless at best and dangerous at worst.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think it is pointless to properly teach the Noahide laws?
ReplyDeleteObviously it would be pointless to only go through the motions of teaching the Noahide laws without pointing out the idolatry and blasphemy of Christianity and without Christians properly understanding the enormity and extent of their idolatry and blasphemy.
Obviously, the point must be made emphatically and repeatedly until the penny drops.
If not now, when?
Perhaps it is not such a big job since I have already done most of the work. All Orthodox rabbis have to do is agree with my ranking and then invite the Pope, Archbishop of Canterbury and the Patriarchs of the Orthodox Church to a Zoom meeting to face a rabbinical interrogation of how Christianity is not the idolatry and blasphemy forbidden in the Ten Commandments and the Seven Noahide laws.
When they predictably try to defend themselves by saying that worshiping a Jew executed for blasphemy is not idolatry if Jesus is God, rabbis must ask the follow up question of how and when did Jesus become God and demand scriptural authority for this proposition.
Wouldn't the world be agog to know how these Christian religious leaders will answer?
I am sympathetic to your quest. Improving the world's morality is needed and the obvious way is through some systematic way to promote the adoption of the Noahide laws. You wish Rabbis would speak more on this topic, and promote your system, but for some reasons, that you noted, this is not happening to the extent you wish. I would not browbeat them too much.
ReplyDeleteI do not quite see how I can make my point if I were not a little insistent! Clearly, they need to be persuaded and cajoled a little and if they refuse, it would be logical to make them feel guilty and uncomfortable for not doing what God made them His Chosen People to do!
ReplyDeleteIslamophobia and antisemitism are a kind of quasi-religion in the Post-Christian Westerner, sadly.
ReplyDeleteIt is not Jews and Muslims that they hate, but they also hate each other: the men and women hate each other as do the poor and the rich and the young and the old.These attitudes also seep into resident Jewry.
The fact that antisemitism and Islamophobia are unacknowledged quasi-religions makes discussing many of these issues difficult.
The fact is that Western Man must now be cajoled into taking back his rightful place in society or nothing can be fixed.
If Western Man loses status in the world, all those who live in the West whether Jew or gentile, white or non-white will be dragged down too.
Western Man is mostly an antisemite and an Islamophobe and therefore must be dealt with carefully. I am aware of the dangers, but this does not mean we can avert the danger to ourselves just by pretending it is not our place to fix it.
The fact is that the West is without a functioning moral and political system and there is a rational way of choosing the right moral and political system which requires rabbinical endorsement for the solution to be taken seriously.
In this regard, antisemitism is actually helpful because antisemites who blame Jews for everything have unknowingly given Jews a status over them. This means however much they hate Jews, deep down they acknowledge the higher status of Jews whose views they will take more seriously than the views of other gentiles.
I was in the room when the late Rabbi Sacks said "Gentiles don't listen to gentiles, Jews don't listen to Jews, but gentiles will listen to Jews!"
Perhaps we will soon find out if this is true by testing this idea properly.
Unfortunately, it seems to me though that nobody wants to listen to Orthodox Rabbis though except some Jews, so what you want from them in my opinion may not move the world barometer towards Noahidism. Xtians have their cultish thing and too much invested to let go (as a collective, individuals may leave upon true reflection). Muslims are not going to listen to Jews.
ReplyDeleteRabbi Singer is very popular with Muslims because he dares to say what he really thinks of Christianity. If other Orthodox rabbis followed in Rabbi Singer's wake, the West may yet adopt the most Noahide gentile religion after renouncing the least Noahide gentile religion ie Christianity!
ReplyDeleteSecular people, you may be an exception, do not find wisdom in the teachings of religious people.
ReplyDeleteThe late Rabbi Sacks was really the gentiles' rabbi. I was very disappointed when he wrote his book Morality with a gentile readership in mind but which did not even mention the Noahide laws!
ReplyDeleteIn public health, we usually facilitate a SWOT analysis when trying to bring an intervention or "agenda" to prominence: Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, and Threats. Perhaps a weakness is that as you mentioned, you do not get the support from religious leaders as you would like. Maybe you could reach out to other types of groups, and discuss your ideas/give presentations.
ReplyDeleteThank you for this suggestion. I do use other forms of social media, but I understand rabbis would be reluctant to admit that that they have not once in the 2000 years of Christian history ever taught the Noahide laws properly to Christians.
ReplyDeleteThe decent thing to do in these circumstances would be to resign after working out your notice, but that would draw attention to their 2000 year omission!
Muslims might in theory be interested in getting rabbis to rank the four gentile religions since such a controversy would put world Jewry on notice that there is something they should have done that they have not done.
Currently, such is the antisemitism that Muslims refuse to even engage with Jews, or they do not trust themselves to do so because they are so triggered by their hatred and contempt for them.
The reason rabbis don't care is most probably that even rabbis only pretend to believe in God. If they did believe in God, then they would be mortified at being guilty of their omission to teach the Noahide laws for 2000 years. However, since they do not believe God exists to punish them in this life or the next, they are indifferent about their omission and believe they can easily ignore me. Christians are the ones who are most atheist and nihilistic since they only pretend to believe in God as a cover for their antisemitism and Islamophobia while Muslims are too stupid - not being Jews - to press their advantage.
I think some sort of formal paper/essay/treatise/presentation etc. tailored to different audiences is needed to best convey your position to a wider swath of people, and maybe that way it will bubble up as a system with support for implementation. What are the opportunities? Has this system been implemented successfully elsewhere? I suppose Iran and Egypt before their modern revolutions might be examples to point to? What organizations exist now that might want to help you promote this system?
ReplyDeleteWhat Muslims should be doing is asking as many Orthodox rabbis about the Noahide laws as they can to rank the four gentile religions. How many adult politically active Muslims are there compared to how many Orthodox rabbis there are in the world?
ReplyDeleteObviously, rabbis would find me very easy to ignore being only a woman whom they can easily brush aside and dismiss, saying I have no knowledge and no right to ask Jews anything or question how rabbis have been doing or not doing things for 2000 years.
My conclusion is that even rabbis only pretend to believe in God and don't really care what God wants since they too are atheists like people who call themselves Christians indifferent to the fact that they are guilty of 2000 years of idolatry and blasphemy. Probably, only Muslims would want to do what I propose, but they are just too stupid to see the opening and press their advantage. The stupidity of Muslims will doubtless be convenient for rabbis who don't want to teach the Noahide laws to gentiles properly or at all.
Probably, rabbis want Christians to stew in their own moral sewage after so many centuries of Christian persecution rather than promote the religion of Muslims who have sworn to kill them.