https://ask.fm/oneparty4all/answers/160235042433
https://www.noahide-academy.com/our_team/schulman
Claire, how can you say the Secular Koranism is Noahide compliant when, unlike mainstream Islam, you would allow open idolatry and blasphemy and would not execute homosexuals?
Because Islam based on the Koran has been regarded as Noahide-compliant for centuries.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-seven-noachide-laws
Dr Michael Schulman, Executive Director of Ask Noah International and https://asknoah.org says:
http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=15
http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=16
http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=24&verse=2
Rabbi Singer says YES, Muslims are definitely Noahide.
5:00 Jews are not allowed to enter churches but are allowed to enter mosques.
http://halachayomit.co.il/en/default.aspx?HalachaID=2367
5:00 Jews are not allowed to enter churches but are allowed to enter mosques.
6:00 Aren't Judaism and Islam in fact complementary ? Judaism is for Jews only, and Christianity is kaput because of its idolatry and failure to prevent gay marriage in formerly Christian Western countries. Islam therefore remains the only rational and moral choice. Secular Koranism is intended to ease the transition from Post-Christian atheism into a one party theocracy.
http://thevoiceofreason-ann.blogspot.com/2014/05/secular-koranism.html
8:00 Even Christians don't claim that the New Testament is the word of God. Only Jews and Muslims believe that their scripture is really the word of God. Christians therefore suffer from having an inferior scripture as well as having practised the worst kind of idolatry for 2000 years. It is bad enough to claim that an executed revolutionary is divine, but what could equal the blasphemy of claiming that he is the co-equal of the supreme and eternal Abrahamic God?
If Muslims who base their religion on the Koran are regarded by Jews as Noahides, then all the more so would they regard Secular Koranism as Noahide-compliant since it follows the Koran more closely than Muslims who have their obedience to the Koran distorted by their Hadith which frequently contradicts it.
https://www.noahide-academy.com/our_team/schulman
Claire, how can you say the Secular Koranism is Noahide compliant when, unlike mainstream Islam, you would allow open idolatry and blasphemy and would not execute homosexuals?
Because Islam based on the Koran has been regarded as Noahide-compliant for centuries.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-seven-noachide-laws
In view of the strict monotheism of Islam, Muslims were considered as Noachides whereas the status of Christians was a matter of debate.
Dr Michael Schulman, Executive Director of Ask Noah International and https://asknoah.org says:
If someone does not transgress any of the 7 Laws, but he does not believe in G-d, he is exempt from punishment by an earthly Noahide court.
If Secular Koranism says that the things [in the specific 7 Laws] are forbidden, and that they are punishable by a "Secular-Koranism" court, but only by a punishment that is lighter than execution, [then Secular Koranism] is compliant [if the specified punishment is a real deterrent].
http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=15
http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=16
http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=24&verse=2
Rabbi Singer says YES, Muslims are definitely Noahide.
5:00 Jews are not allowed to enter churches but are allowed to enter mosques.
http://halachayomit.co.il/en/default.aspx?HalachaID=2367
5:00 Jews are not allowed to enter churches but are allowed to enter mosques.
6:00 Aren't Judaism and Islam in fact complementary ? Judaism is for Jews only, and Christianity is kaput because of its idolatry and failure to prevent gay marriage in formerly Christian Western countries. Islam therefore remains the only rational and moral choice. Secular Koranism is intended to ease the transition from Post-Christian atheism into a one party theocracy.
http://thevoiceofreason-ann.blogspot.com/2014/05/secular-koranism.html
8:00 Even Christians don't claim that the New Testament is the word of God. Only Jews and Muslims believe that their scripture is really the word of God. Christians therefore suffer from having an inferior scripture as well as having practised the worst kind of idolatry for 2000 years. It is bad enough to claim that an executed revolutionary is divine, but what could equal the blasphemy of claiming that he is the co-equal of the supreme and eternal Abrahamic God?
If Muslims who base their religion on the Koran are regarded by Jews as Noahides, then all the more so would they regard Secular Koranism as Noahide-compliant since it follows the Koran more closely than Muslims who have their obedience to the Koran distorted by their Hadith which frequently contradicts it.
Claire, you are being dishonest, this is what the letter said:
ReplyDelete"If her "Secular Koranism" says that something is permissible in G-d's eyes that's forbidden by the specific 7 Noahide Laws, then it's not Noahide compliant. So if it says (for example) that homosexual male intercourse, or cursing the Tetragrammaton Name of G-d in Hebrew, or worshiping an idol, is actually permissible, then it is not Noahide compliant."
Secular Koranism does not "forbid" idolatry or blasphemy, you are not Noahide compliant
I was just going by the rule that Muslims and Islam are considered Noahide by Jews because Jews are allowed to enter mosques but forbidden from entering churches on the ground that they are places of abomination where idolatry is practised. It seems Jews are themselves confused about it and I have given up trying to get a definitive decision from them on the basis that there will be three opinions to every two Jews. It is almost a shame that they have no Rabbinical Pope of Rabbinical Infallibility. We must trust in God in the belief that He knows everything and will inform us in due course, though not always within our lifetimes!
Delete1 Shevat 5780 / 27 January 20′20
ReplyDeleteOpen letter to Claire Khaw (C.K.) and https://radicalisedrabbi.blogspot.com/
I write in response to C.K.’s misrepresentation of my position about her concept of “Secular Koranism,” on her web page https://radicalisedrabbi.blogspot.com/2020/01/rabbi-declares-secular-koranism-to-be.html
This response is posted at this URL:
https://asknoah.org/wp-content/uploads/rebuttal-of-claims-that-secular-koranism-is-noahide-compliant.pdf
The following are quotes from my statements in recent emails to her, with clarifications added in brackets:
1. On 27 January 20′20:
“...the web site https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/ does not represent the Torah law” [as to whether believers in any non-Torah religion are considered or regarded as Noahides].
[It is a project of AICE: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/about-aice. Quoting from that page:]
“The American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise (AICE) was established in 1993 as a nonprofit and nonpartisan organization to strengthen the U.S.-Israel relationship by emphasizing the fundamentals of the alliance — the values our nations share.”
“Here is a correct restatement of those issues, in the view of Torah law: ‘In the view of the strict monotheism of Islam, Muslims were considered as non-idolaters...’ ”
2. On 26 January 20′20, I wrote this conditional statement:
“If Secular Koranism says that the things [in the specific 7 Laws] are forbidden, and that they are punishable by a ‘Secular-Koranism’ court, but only by a punishment that is lighter than execution, [then Secular Koranism] is compliant [if the specified punishment is a real deterrent].
If a court system [such as proposed in Secular Koranism] only punishes for transgressions of some of the 7 Laws, but not others ... then it [the court system] is in partial compliance [with the Noahide commandment to establish courts of law], but not full compliance.”
C.K. then responded in her reply:
“The Quran admonishes blasphemy, but does not specify any worldly punishment for blasphemy.”
To which I responded on 27 January 20′20:
“That makes it [the Quran and Secular Koranism] not Noahide compliant, in regard to the Torah-based definition of the capital sin of blasphemy [i.e. speaking a curse against G-d, using His most holy Name in Hebrew]”
Conclusions: C.K. has misrepresented my position. Secular Koranism fully exempts some violations of the 7 Noahide Commandments from liability to any worldly punishment. That alone makes it not compliant with the Noahide Code, even if its courts are in partial compliance. And the fact that Secular Koranism is clearly being promoted as “secular” puts it out of the category of the Noahide Code. The Noahide Laws are given by G-d as divine commands within the Torah. Authentic Noahide observance is therefore not secular, and is based on the complete truth of the Chumash being G-d’s word given through Moses.
Dr. Michael Schulman
Executive Director, Ask Noah International and Asknoah.org