Debating Secular Koranism with Paul, a Jewish Islamophobe

Claire Khaw

30 July at 13:02

Jews and Muslims who agree with each other on the oneness of God must demand the BBC host a theological debate between Chief Rabbi Mirvis and the Archbishop of Canterbury on the definition of blasphemy which by extension means a debate on whether Jesus is God.

Is there such a thing as objective truth capable of being arrived at by Jews, Christians and Muslims?  

Jews and Christians rely on their divine scripture from the Abrahamic God. 

Christians claim that Jesus is co-eternal, co-substantial and co-equal to God, but can never explain why.

It is impossible to explain nonsense.

Associating partners with God is blasphemy + idolatry.

The shituf of Christianity is worse than the avodah zarah of Hinduism.

Doesn't tikkun olam ridding the world of idolatry?

Paul Maas Risenhoover

30 July at 13:09

it is forbidden to debate with idolators

Chinese communism is much worse than Hinduism

Claire Khaw

30 July at 13:09

Doesn't idolatry include the conceptual idolatry of thinking liberal democracy is working just fine and that Christianity is Noahide?

Chinese communism is much worse than Hinduism

What makes you think I am a Communist?

it is forbidden to debate with idolators

What do you think is my idol?

Paul Maas Risenhoover

30 July at 13:11

thinking that Islam as a Secular Koranism for the UK would be appropriate would seem to be idolatrous...

who do you idolize? who knows?

Claire Khaw

30 July at 13:12

I am sure God if He exists would be OK about me saying the Koran is the best available guide to humanity.

Do you have a better idea than Secular Koranism for the UK?

Claire Khaw

30 July at 14:48. 

who do you idolize? who knows?

Happy to admit that if I have an idol at all, it would be the Idol of Secular Koranism.

Paul Maas Risenhoover

30 July at 16:49

how about not being an idolator... the very center of Islam circles around idolatry... literally...

Claire Khaw 

30 July at 16:59. 

how about not being an idolator... the very center of Islam circles arou…

Are you really saying Muslims are idolaters?

Aren't Jews and Muslims agreed on the oneness of God?

Aren't Christians idolaters and blasphemers according to Judaism?

Aren't Jews allowed to pray with Muslims in mosques but forbidden from entering churches which are places of abomination where idolatry and blasphemy are practised?

Aren't Jews supposed to be teaching the Noahide laws as part of their tikkun olam?

According to the Noahide laws, isn't it the case that Islam is the most Noahide and Christianity the least?

How long have Jews not been doing their tikkun olam while in exile?

Now that they have their homeland back, they are still not feeling safe enough to properly teach the Noahide laws, so it would appear that they are no longer fit for the purpose for which God made them His Chosen People. Is this indeed the case?

Then just admit it and say it is up to Islam to civilise the world now.

You could start by acknowledging that Islam is the most Noahide of all gentile religions, so how about it?

And does your rabbi agree that Islam is idolatry?

If you refuse to confirm that Islam is the most and Christianity the least Noahide of all gentile religions, you are still going to get the blame when the West becomes a series of failed states.

You know it is a law of human nature that Jews will be blamed for gentiles when they suffer from bad government. In a way you are responsible because, but for them being a righteous gentile nation, they would enjoy better government, and they would have been a Noahide nation if Jews had confirmed that Islam is the most Noahide and Christianity the least.

Paul Maas Risenhoover

31 July at 05:45

It is undisputed that the center of Islamic worship arises from idolatry.

The language “agreed on” is a Xtian collocation, and not proper for discussion of truth which is Torah Emes Yisroel.

For Jews the unity of G-d includes the Jewish People, the Torah, the land of Yisroel, the Temple, Temple Mount, and all the world.

Muslims do not so conceive.

According to Secular Koranism, Xtians are idolators, no ?

According to Secular Koranism, socialist and communist Chinese are idolators and blasphemers, no?

According to moderate and extreme Malaysian sharia, secular Koranism is idolatry and blasphemy, as is Chinese communism, no?

Jews do not pray in mosques WITH Muslims.

Why would Jews want to enter churches with idols?

The Grand Hall of the People in Beijing is a site of idolatry and blasphemy, as is the Kremlin.

Jews duty to Hashem is to fulfill the Taryag mitzvos and study Torah, enjoying the tikkun olam that the non-Jews perform by yishuv olam, making a physical world amenable to the spiritual work of the nation of Israel in their physical tasks of keeping the commandments in the physical world, bringing down the spiritual from Above and revealing the spiritual essence inherent in the physical Below. Making Heaven on Earth, and serving thus as a light unto the nations, and a little light dispels much darkness, and the deepest darkness is logic.

Jews teach the Seven Laws because commanded to do so. And in this era of the Chevlei Moshiach as revealed by the Lubavitcher Rebbe, it is known that it is often safe for Jews to positively influence the non-Jews in their spheres of influence to learn the Seven Laws. The duty to LEARN and DO devolves solely on the nicht Yidden. Keeping the mitzvos is not merely about tikkun olam as a general theory of theology that the world needs fixing. In this stage, the world only needs one more good deed, and more act of kindness, and the final and full complete revelation of the Moshiach can be revealed.

Noahide law does not have a system for adjudicating which false religion is less or more false. Any new religion is forbidden, and forbidden in an equal DEGREE.

Logic was the religion of the Nazis.

The Jews have always kept their commandments. It is anti-semitic and very wrong to assume otherwise, and only a mamash RASHA would say so.

The Greater Land of Israel is still under Muslim Arab occupation. 

How is someone who places secular logic (as a field of philosophy, not even as a mathematical discipline or computer science) fit to criticize the Jewish People?

It is well known that Hashem will never abandon His People, and they are always fit for His Desire. The Jewish People have always been and will always be His Chosen People. Hashem did not choose the Jewish People, the nations, including all the Secular Koranism nations such as mainland China’s HUI peoples, rejected Hashem’s Revelation at Sinai. The HUI peoples said, we will not eat pork, but we want shrimp and lobster, so the Secular Koranists rejected the Torah and lost the only chance to become the Sole Chosen People for eternity. So Hashem is very fair, and each nation had its fair chance.

Rambam says that the non-Jewish theories only have any merit to the extent they spread the notion of the Moshiach abroad to the furthest islands of the earth. That may be a civilizing influence, but sharia is usually considered by western jurisprudence (ex re Ross v McIntyre) as unfair and unjust, discriminating against non-Muslims and women’s rights and interests, and permitting confessions extracted under torture. Also, while algebra and some Arab sciences developed under Islamic influences, one would be hard pressed to say that Islam civilized anywhere in the world, and indeed, there is much civil war, murder and strife in the Islamic world today. But aside from the facts that Islam has not civilized its own worlds, we already know from Sinai that Islam is forbidden because it claims to be a new religion revealed by a new prophet with new scriptures and news laws.

 

Noahide law does not need to balance and weight the diverse religions of the non-Jews, as none of them are permitted.

No Rabbi supports Islam.

As a Ben Noach, your ad hominem comment is factually misdirected under your own assumptions. The Rebbe has said that for many purposes, the world is now amenable to learning their Seven Laws, which do not include learning Secular anything, let alone Secular Islam of the Chinese HUI peoples for whom Islam is essentially and merely a cultural phenomenon about covering the head and refraining from pork.

The eras when the nations could engage in the blame game are long gone. And the idea that the nations of the West will “fail” has no compirical evidence. Indeed, Chinese investors and Chinese emigrants, are fond of moving to Australia, Canada, the UK and US. A million Vietnamese refugees live happily in France. And tens of millions of Secular Koranist Muslims have left their Islamic homelands to seek refuge and cast their lots among their Xtian brethren in idolatry.

Having read and contributed to publishing much in the Free China Movement, blame for communism in China has never been placed on Israel Epstein or Sidney Shapiro. To the contrary, Yan Jiaqi, Wang Binzhang, and other Chinese democracy advocates have blamed Secular Chinese-ism for the pervasive crimes against the Chinese and Muslims in China perpetrated by the Chinese Communist Party and its Secular Logic religion.

Your conclusions do not follow from your false predicates and false assumptions. Nor are there “laws of human nature” in the sense you propose. You have not studied the TANYA, nor the RAMCHAL, nor Israel and the Nations, so you do not know the laws of Jewish human nature or the laws of non-Jewish human nature. Most Muslims in Europe or America would never think of blaming the Chosen People for the leftward trend, to the contrary, most religious Muslims believe that Secularism is precisely to blame for the progressive liberalism trends. Secular humanism as imposed in the public schools and from the halls of government, and not the Jewish People, are to blame for the low morals of society in the world. This is why the Rebbe asked his Shluchim to ask the Congress and President to recognize the Rebbe’s birthday in the Jewish calendar as Education Day USA, to promote observance of the Seven Laws, as the source for tikkun olam civilizing the world and yishuv olam making the world a physically fit and conducive place for the Jewish Nation to fulfill its unique role as Priest and Light unto the Nations.

Good government is impossible without observing the Seven Laws, which forbid Islam and Secular Islam. In the US Supreme Court they have held that murder is permissible and that animal sacrifices by idolators is protected freedom of conscience and religion. So even in courts where Moses the Lawgiver is featured prominently, it is possible for Xtian jurists to go very astray from the Seven Laws. But that judicial violence and violence against the proper construction of the somewhat Secular Constitution (which invokes in its preambular clauses Providence) has never waged warfare against the Jewish People, whereas numerous Secular Islam states, including Malaysia, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, or Lebanon have deployed Secular Koranism and Secular Islam against the Jewish People. 

And communist China has been a key practical source of material aid to Iran in its efforts to wreak havoc against Israel through nuclear and long distance missile, terrorist, and other means. And Malaysia, has been a source of technical and financial support to Iran in its shared efforts against the Jewish State.

Were you to propose Secular Koranism in China among the HUI, the response would be laughable, because the millions of HUI are already secular even if they can perhaps nominally pronounce but not actually read the Koran. Outside of China’s HUI Secular Koranists, there is no market for Secular Koranism, even if one exists for moderate Islam, and indeed, if you were in the Gulf States, Pakistan, Egypt or Saudi Arabia, and being a female Chinese (purported) non-Muslim proponent of “Secular Koranism” as a new stream of Islaim invented (admittedly fictively invented) by yourself, then there can be no doubt that numerous fatwas against such innovation would quickly issue, and you would be found guilty of lese majeste or blasphemy of genuine Islam, which does not concede itself to be a religion at all, but a form of government for human life, public and private, in bodies corporate or politic, and thus cannot ever be said to be Secular in your sense of the term.

Perhaps your new religion is actually an unevolved form of sociological logic or Logical Koranism for atheists, which is essentially how the Chinese HUI live their lives without any actual connection to Divine Revelation.

Claire Khaw

1 August 2021 at 09:29. 

It is undisputed that the center of Islamic worship arises from idolatry…

Jews are allowed to pray with Muslims in mosques but forbidden to enter churches which are places of abomination where idolatry and blasphemy are practised. Christians have been worshipping a deceased Jew they know was convicted of the blasphemy of saying his papa was God for 2000 years. I already know Jews are afraid of offending their Christian overlords by saying that their religion is the idolatry and blasphemy explicitly and specifically forbidden in the Ten Commandments and the Seven Noahide laws. This is presumably why they have  not been performing their tikkun olam of properly teaching the Noahide laws to gentiles and explaining to Christians they are the odd one out for worshipping Jesus as God while Jews and Muslims both agree on the oneness of God. The shituf of Christianity is worse than the avodah zarah of Hinduism, is it not? Hinduism is only idolatry, but Christianity is both idolatry and blasphemy compounding the offence to God. Neither Jews nor Muslims are on record for challenging the idolatry and blasphemy of three global Christian empires. God is just beginning to show signs of impatience through the global pandemic, is He not? When will Jews do what God has chosen them to do? When will Muslims obey the command in Quran.com/18/4 and admonish Christians for claiming God has begotten a son? If Jews are afraid of pointing out the idolatry and blasphemy of Christianity on their own, they could do it jointly with Muslims. This would improve Jewish/Muslim relations and also please God for challenging the idolatry and blasphemy of their Christian overlords.

Paul Maas Risenhoover

1 August 2021 at 09:52

being permitted, allowed, or not, does not make something advisable or proper... a Jew has a mitzvah to make a house of prayer and learning, not to donate to a mosque

Claire Khaw

1 August 2021 at 10:12

I never said anything about Jews being expected to donate to a mosque. I said Jews are allowed to pray in mosques with Muslims but are forbidden to enter churches which are places of abomination where idolatry and blasphemy are practised. This would suggest that Islam is the most and Christianity the least Noahide of all gentile religions and it is time for Jews to point out that the shituf of Christianity is worse than the avodah zarah of Hinduism as soon as possible to make up for lost time.

Miriam Fauth

1 August 2021 at 10:45

I would like to add a thought please.Striving for unity I think is important.We know the issues.Today(as opposed to disgraceful church history)..xtians are not murdering Jews...literal murder I mean..Islam is...Islam is the direct physical threat.I was at a meeting yesterday in USA.30 Christians...the purpose was how they all are reading scriptures...like Isaiah 49.22.Carrying Jews on thier shoulders to safety.These xtians are..today..preparing ways to help Jewish people when anti semetism gets worse...they are fore seeing a time where Jews may have to flee USA.At the meeting..they were discussing making safe houses..collecting supplies...planning routes to safe places for Jewish people..

they were discussing the severity of what they are planning...meaning...that they are prepared to risk their lives .I was the only Jewish person there.

Claire Khaw

1 August 2021 at 10:51

It is a law of nature that Jews will always be blamed by gentiles when they suffer from bad government. It seems clear to me that God made Jews His Chosen People to teach gentiles the Noahide laws so that gentiles enjoy the good government of a righteous gentile nation. If Jews have never informed Christians that Christianity is idolatry and blasphemy, and allow them to labour under the misapprehension that Christianity is a Noahide religion, this is tantamount to watching someone jump out of a plane with a parachute that will not open, and deliberately refraining from warning him. Another analogy is that Jews allow gentiles to eat food they already know is poisoned without feeling a duty to warn them that it is poisoned.

Miriam Fauth

1 August 2021 at 10:51

If we go forward in what unites us...I think G_d will help the layers fall away.There is power in unity.I was also at a meeting in SC...Jeremy Gimpel was speaking.He is at present touring USA.  You could say mostly Noahide type Xtians.Striving so sincerely to follow Torah.It seems to be time for us to rise up and teach Torah...the essence of Torah from Jewish perspective.

Claire Khaw

1 August 2021 at 10:52

I see that Miriam does not really care about the principle of the thing: the principle that Jews have a duty to warn Christians to refrain from their idolatry and blasphemy by their  worship of a deceased Jew as the co-equal of Hashem.

How can Christians be Noahide if they are practising the idolatry and blasphemy that God has specifically and explicitly forbidden in the Ten Commandments and the Seven Noahide laws? Christians would be even further away from being Noahide than Hindus since the shituf of Christianity is worse than the avodah zarah of Hinduism. Christians are not only guilty of worshiping Jesus as an idol, they are also guilty of worshiping a man convicted and crucified for the blasphemy of saying his papa was God and they have been guilty of this for 2000 years. Is it on record that any Jew ever warned or challenged them?

Miriam Fauth

1 August 2021 at 10:58

If we teach Torah..this concerning issue of worshipping J ....I think will fall away...I have seen it myself...step by step...by learning

 Torah....we will see truth come forth.Actually...it happened with me...as my journey back to my Jewish heritage began in a church...but...over 15 years...of striving..reading...all the doctrine I was caught up in fell away...like I mentioned in my first talk...Rabbi Tovia Singer pointed me to Torah...reading Torah in the correct way..

Claire Khaw 

1 August 2021 at 11:01

Rabbi Singer is the only rabbi as far as I know prepared to tell Christians exactly what Jews think of their idolatry and blasphemy. That is presumably why he is so popular with Muslims who dare not themselves admonish those who claim God has begotten a son that quran.com/18/4 commands them to do. Muslims too have been cowards in this regard. If however Jews and Muslims issue a joint declaration to the effect that those who believe in the oneness of God regard those who worship Jesus as God as idolaters and blasphemers, perhaps the penny will drop with the Christians sooner rather than later, preferably before Yom Kippur.

Those who claim to be Christians don't really believe Jesus is God anyway, since it is so patently absurd. Christianity only worked when governments practised the Christian practice of burning heretics at the stake, but since the West is now overwhelmingly atheist. there is no political will for that and I really don't think we need fear a Christian revival within our lifetimes even if we were all born yesterday.

Paul Maas Risenhoover

1 August 2021 at 13:29

so Claire was raised a Malaysian Chinese Xtian ?

Claire Khaw

1 August 2021 at 13:52

I am not Christian.

And never was.

Nor will I ever be.

Why on earth would I adopt a religion of absurdity, idolatry and blasphemy?

Paul Maas Risenhoover

1 August 2021 at 17:10

so u were raised a Chinese Buddhist, atheist or Muslim in Malaysia ? your blatant anti-semitism is appalling, and hopefully Miriam is not wasting time with your nonsense.... you even quote a blood libel... shamelessly... " Another analogy is that Jews allow gentiles to eat food they already know is poisoned without feeling a duty to warn them that it is poisoned."... and no it does not matter that you claim to be making a negative and an analogy and yada yada yada... Europe and America were founded as Noahide nations, and will never accept the nonsense that Mohamed is a prophet or the Quran a Holy Book, or any other nonsense of your invention of Secular Koranism... but the theory might qualify you for political asylum in England...

Claire Khaw

2 August 2021 at 01:26. 

so u were raised a Chinese Buddhist, atheist or Muslim in Malaysia ? you…

Is it antisemitic to point out that Jews have not been properly teaching the Noahide laws to their Christian overlords with three global empires even if it is true? If it is not true that Jews have not been properly teaching the Noahide laws, when did they tell Christians about their shituf? Is the shituf of Christianity indeed worse than the avodah zarah of Hinduism? If so, how so?

Paul Maas Risenhoover

2 August 2021 at 04:55

anything Claire has to say is bitul devarim... any Noahide avoda zara carries the same penalty... so Islam is just as forbidden as Hinduism, Buddhism, atheism, socialism, communism, Mormonism, or Xtianity, or any other new manmade religion such as Secular Koranism... none is permitted... and the penalty is ultimately the same at the hands of heaven

Claire Khaw

2 August 2021 at 05:18

Is Paul really saying that gentiles are all to become Jews to be in good standing with God? As far as I know, no rabbi has suggested such a thing, and even if he did, there would be no rabbinical consensus.

Where does it say in the Torah that God would send no guidance to gentiles?

Is Paul completely unaware that Jews are allowed to pray with Muslims in mosques but forbidden to enter churches which are places of abomination where idolatry and blasphemy are practised? Surely this means that Judaism has already confirmed that Islam is the most and Christianity the least Noahide of all gentile religions?

Is there rabbinical consensus that the shituf of Christianity is worse than the avodah zarah of Hinduism?

Paul Maas Risenhoover

2 August 2021 at 05:26

Islam is forbidden to Noahides because Islam is a manmade invention. If a genuinely Noahide state could exist in all respects, its courts would outlaw Islam and Secular Koranism because they are like communism, manmade religions.

There is rabbinic consensus that violation of the Seven Laws by practicing and advocating a manmade religion carries the same penalty in most circumstances, hence, they are equally forbidden as being new religions. And Islam is among the newest of the new religions forbidden by the Torah from Sinai to all nations.

Claire Khaw

2 August 2021 at 05:28

May I know the name of Paul's rabbi and whether he supports Paul's position on Islam?

I ask Paul for a verse in the Torah that supports his contention that God expects gentiles to become Jews.

I ask Paul for the name of poskim who support his position that gentiles are to become Jews.

Is Paul aware that Israel is not a theocracy and is not even conforming to the minimum moral standards of the Noahide laws? If Jews themselves in their own Jewish state cannot conform to the minimum moral standards of the Noahide laws, have they the  moral authority to claim they have higher standards than Muslims who operate six sharia theocracies?

Has Paul read the Koran?

Which verse in the Koran contradicts any of the Noahide laws?

If Paul cannot point to any verse in the Koran that contradicts any of the Noahide laws, then Islam is Noahide and is the most Noahide of all gentile religions.

Is there rabbinical consensus on whether the shituf of Christianity is worse than the avodah zarah of Hinduism? If so, then Christianity is the least Noahide of all gentile religions and Jews have a religious obligation to point this out, do they not?

If Jews continue to refuse to point out that the shituf of Christianity is worse than the avodah zarah of Hinduism and the West becomes a series of failed states, it is a law of human nature that Jews will be blamed when Western nations fall into chaos, criminality and disorder. If Jews are no longer up to the job of doing what they were chosen by God to do, then surely the only option they have is to arrange for the formal and official outsourcing of this job to Islam?

Paul Maas Risenhoover

2 August 2021 at 07:18

the entire Koran is a violation of the Seven Laws which specifically forbid new religions after the revelation at Sinai...

the theory that halachically it may be permissible to enter a mosque is not the actual psak din today... in most countries it is absolutely forbidden for a Jew to enter a mosque... because of the danger it would create for the local Jewish community or broader community and the particular individual... there are only few exceptions

moreover, Claire is not fit to be a judge over the Noahides, and certainly not over Israel... her criticisms are bitul dvorim and nonsense

Claire repeats anti-semitic blood libels and does not even apologize or take responsibility... " Another analogy is that Jews allow gentiles to eat food they already know is poisoned without feeling a duty to warn them that it is poisoned."..

Claire says " Another analogy is that Jews allow gentiles to eat food they already know is poisoned without feeling a duty to warn them that it is poisoned."..

Claire the anti-semitic Malaysian Muslim says " Another analogy is that Jews allow gentiles to eat food they already know is poisoned without feeling a duty to warn them that it is poisoned."..

Paul Maas Risenhoover

2 August 2021 at 07:29

claiming Mohamet is a prophet, the highest one, or the last one, all violate Noahide law. declaring the Koran is revealed by Allah also violates Noahide law, and because these claims by Muslims lead to actual violence and anti-semitism, all of Islam is forbidden as new religion. And Claire repeats anti-semitic blood libels and does not even apologize or take responsibility... " Another analogy is that Jews allow gentiles to eat food they already know is poisoned without feeling a duty to warn them that it is poisoned.".. And Claire repeats anti-semitic blood libels and does not even apologize or take responsibility... " Another analogy is that Jews allow gentiles to eat food they already know is poisoned without feeling a duty to warn them that it is poisoned."..

Claire Khaw

2 August 2021 at 08:10

It cannot be God's intention to burden Jewish souls with more than they can bear. If it is indeed true that the cure of Islam exists before the disease of Jews being no longer fit for the purpose for which God made them His Chosen People since no rabbi will rank the four gentile religions according to their conformity with the Noahide laws. How is this matter to be resolved? It can only be settled through a consensus of poskim. Paul is not a rabbi and has no authority to represent poskim, has he? The simplest and quickest solution is to formally inform God that Jews are no longer up to the burden of teaching the Noahide laws who are conduct a formal handover ceremony to Secular Koranism, which is Islam Lite, and let the gentiles fight it out amongst themselves about which school of sharia to adopt. Secular Koranism is a new school of sharia created by a non-Muslin. Once Israel becomes a one party theocracy governed by the principle of Secular Koranism, I am sure the rest of the West will follow suit in due course, particularly if America is the first Western nation to adopt it.

Paul Maas Risenhoover

2 August 2021 at 08:12

Claire is very sick, the antisemitic  Malaysian says " before the disease of Jews being no longer fit for the purpose for which God made them His Chosen People "

Claire Khaw

2 August 2021 08:14. 

claiming Mohamet is a prophet, the highest one, or the last one, all vio…

As far as I understand it, the blood libel is Christians accusing Jews of wanting the blood of Christian children for their rituals. I have said no such thing and it would appear that Paul is lying in the hope of discrediting me. Just because Paul hates me does not mean I am an antisemite.

Paul had not cited any verse in the Torah that says God will leave gentiles unguided because he expects them to be Jews.

What does Paul sick I am sick with?

Claire is very sick, the antisemitic Malaysian says " before the diseas…

Your reply:

If I am mistaken that Jews have entirely neglected to teach the Noahide laws to gentiles, please tell me which Jew told Christians that they have been guilty of the idolatry and blasphemy explicitly and specifically forbidden by the Ten Commandments and the Seven Noahide laws.

Paul Maas Risenhoover

2 August 2021 at 08:48

Moses, and all rabbis until Rambam, and all rabbis since Rambam...  strengthening goodwill between all people and in the dissemination of the G‑d-given values and principles which are indispensable to making the world a better place to live in for all mankind. while promoting also among gentiles the so-called Seven Noahide Laws, with all their ramifications which were given by G‑d to ensure a decent human society. As you know, the President of the United States has made this a strong point in his Proclamation to the Nation in connection with "Education Day - USA."... https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/letters/default_cdo/aid/1950499/jewish/Starting-a-TV-Station.htm

whereas the gentiles have to observe only seven commandments with all their ramifications, which is also no small thing, as explained in various sources. https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/letters/default_cdo/aid/1238868/jewish/Every-Nation-with-its-Mission.htm

At the same time, I would like to call attention to a point which is really self-evident, but because of its importance, cannot be overemphasized. I refer to the Divinely ordained Seven Categories of moral laws and principles which have been given to Noah and his descendants by the Creator and Master of the world, i.e., all humanity. These include such fundamental precepts as the prohibition of idolatry, robbery, the laws of justice, etc. Although common sense dictates that these laws are indispensable as the basis of any decent human society, experience has shown that, human nature being what it is, common sense has not been a reliable factor in the implementation of the said basic laws, if they are based only on the dictates of common sense. Suffice it to mention that the Holocaust of the Second World War sprouted and burst forth in a country and a people that had been most prominent in the area of human thought, philosophy and ethics. But because it was all based on the human mind, and not on the recognition of a Supreme Being, it could be twisted to devise and “justify” the most horrid inhumanity and cruelty in human history.  https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/letters/default_cdo/aid/1907060/jewish/Letter-to-A-New-Jersey-State-Senator.htm

For reasons best known to G‑d Himself, He wished that there should be many nations in the world, but only one Jewish people, a people who should be separated and different from all the other nations, with a destiny and function of its own. Even in the future Messianic era, as has been prophesied by our Prophets, there will be a distinction between the Jewish people and non-Jews, where the Jews will retain the 613 Mitzvoth, whereas the gentiles have to observe only seven commandments with all their ramifications, which is also no small thing, as explained in various sources. https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/letters/default_cdo/aid/1883988/jewish/Every-Nation-with-Its-Mission.htm

the Oral Torah (Talmud, etc.) – contains parts which are in order to be studied by gentiles, namely, those that deal with the so-called Seven Noahite Laws, in all their ramifications and details, which are incumbent upon all human beings, both Jew and gentile. On the other hand, there are other parts of the Torah which are of no relevance to gentiles, and for various reasons, gentiles should not be encouraged to take time out to study them, time that they can use to better and practical advantage by studying, practicing and promoting the said Seven Noahite Laws. https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/letters/default_cdo/aid/5181010/jewish/Non-Jews-and-Torah-Study.htm

I would like to add a further point, which I trust you know, that from the Torah viewpoint, there is no need whatever for a gentile to convert to Judaism, in order to achieve fulfillment in accordance with the design of the Creator. On the contrary, Jews are required to discourage a would-be convert from the idea of conversion, which could also be further explained to you by the Rabbi you will consult with.

Now, the epithet “holy,” like that of “Jew,” has had its content defined and consecrated by generations of our people, from the time of the Giving of the Law—when the title “kingdom of priests and a holy nation” was bestowed on us, and when the Jewish people were granted the Holy Land according to its borders, “the land of the Canaanite and the Lebanon as far as the great river, the river Euphrates”—till the present day and including it. https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/letters/default_cdo/aid/2391337/jewish/Dear-Mr-Ben-Gurion-Israelis-Must-Remain-Jewish.htm

For the Jewish people are like one complete body and every limb is connected to [all] others and requires them. This concept does not apply with regard to gentiles.

Our Sages declare: “You are called אדם,” [i.e., Jews and] not gentiles. The term האדם applies also to gentiles (Yevamos 61a; Tosafos, s.v. ve’ein). Therefore when a person cannot battle against his evil inclination because of the heaviness in his heart7 and he must subjugate the evil inclination, to crush it and humble it [by] reproving himself, [saying] that he is lower even than the impure animals, he must follow the first course mentioned. Hence, he will be humble even in the presence of a non-Jew. https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/letters/default_cdo/aid/2283017/jewish/Explanation-why-when-citing-Be-of-humble-spirit-before-all-men-the-Alter-Rebbe-uses-the-wording-including-a-hei.htm

I must say that I was greatly surprised that she writes to you about the benevolence of the gentiles in her environment. Does she not know of the terrible tragedy of the millions of Jews who were savagely put to death by the Germans and their cohorts, while the rest of the world the gentiles looked on with complete indifference? Even the last Pope who could have saved many Jews by mere oral intervention, refused to do so. It is a well-known fact that when the Germans occupied Rome, and the Jews were interned in concentration camps, the German commander hesitated to harm them, having been told that it would arouse the displeasure of the Vatican. However, checking personally with the Vatican whether this was so, the Pope refused to confirm it, knowing full well what the denial would mean for those thousands of unfortunate Jews, and although he had been pleaded with to say just one good word in their behalf. As a direct result, thousands of Italian Jews were deported to the extermination camps. This is all the more noteworthy since the Pope knew well that his attitude would not remain a secret, and yet he could not find it in his heart to say a good word about the Jews. Despite efforts to misrepresent the facts, the evidence is irrefutable, as it was given by the very persons who attempted to obtain the Pope's intervention in behalf of the Jews. https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/letters/default_cdo/aid/2052883/jewish/Could-the-Pope-Have-Saved-Jews-During-the-Holocaust.htm

Claire Khaw

2 August 2021 at 09:07

Paul has not explained which verse in the Koran offends against the Noahide laws nor has he cited any verse in the Torah that says God would never give gentiles divine scripture to guide them.

Is Paul a rabbi?

Has Paul allowed his Islamophobia to make him reject the idea that Islam is a Noahide religion and take the position that no gentile religion is Noahide?

Paul Maas Risenhoover

2 August 2021 at 11:28

see https://asknoah.org/books/the-divine-code Islam is clearly a forbidden new manmade religion, just all other gentile religions, it is forbidden as a new religion... you have not explained your despicable blatant anti-semitism... Claire the anti-semitic Malaysian Muslim says " Another analogy is that Jews allow gentiles to eat food they already know is poisoned without feeling a duty to warn them that it is poisoned."..

Claire Khaw 

2 August 2021 at 11:32

Just because I say something a Jew hates does not mean I am an antisemite. Is the truth antisemitic?

 

Paul Maas Risenhoover
2 August 2021 at 12:32
the truth is Jewish... u r an antisemite... only an antisemite says  " Another analogy is that Jews allow gentiles to eat food they already know is poisoned without feeling a duty to warn them that it is poisoned."...  it is an ancient blood libel, which as a Malaysian non-Muslim Chinese who refuses to disclose the faith tradition she was raised in, could only have acquired such a sentence from anti-semitic sources with anti-semitic purposes

Claire is very sick

Claire Khaw
2 August 2021
What is this illness you think I am suffering from?

Paul seems to think that "blood libel" means anything he finds libelous as a Jew involving blood, but it has a very specific meaning.

Paul Maas Risenhoover
2 August 2021 at 15:19
Claire is mentally ill. She is a non-Muslim but promotes Islam as the savior of Great Britain... what rubbish and nonsense... Islam is a political system, it is not possible to have a secular version of it... Muslims believe they are commanded to pray five times daily... that commandment is a violation of Noahide law which provides there are only Seven Laws (66 additional commandments thereas) and none of which are to pray Islamic prayers... Islam like Mormonism and Secular Koranism is a chiddush da'as and thus completely forbidden... no less forbidden than Hinduism or Xtianity or Chinese communism or Malaysian anti-semitism (something Mahathir widely promoted)... Claire still has not retracted her anti-semitic   " Another analogy is that Jews allow gentiles to eat food they already know is poisoned without feeling a duty to warn them that it is poisoned."

Claire Khaw
2 August 2021 at 15:22
So I am mad because I say something you dislike?

Paul Maas Risenhoover
2 August 2021 at 15:22
u r insane b/c of your antisemitism

u said tracted her anti-semitic   " Another analogy is that Jews allow gentiles to eat food they already know is poisoned without feeling a duty to warn them that it is poisoned.".
 
Claire Khaw
2 August 2021 at 15:23
Are you a trained psychiatrist?

Paul Maas Risenhoover
2 August 2021 at 15:23
Dr. of Religious Counseling

Claire Khaw
2 August 2021 at 15:25
You counselled only Jewish students presumably?
Do you deny that Jews have not been properly teaching the Noahide laws for centuries?

Paul Maas Risenhoover
3 August 2021 at 07:51
so a Malaysian Imam taught Claire the Seven Laws ?
If Claire will go to the Bodleian she can readily find hundreds of manuscripts teaching Noahide law to non-Jews dating back for millenia... same with the Vatican Library collection, the British National Library, Harvard or the Library of Congress... there are many many hundreds of responsa discussing the seven laws... and in all Jewish communities at all times in all places there have been especially privileged Shabbos Goy persons who lived the seven laws in a more profound manner, by serving the Jewish community...

Claire Khaw
3 August 2021 at 07:57
Did any Jew ever tell his Christian overlords that Christianity is idolatry and blasphemy?

Paul Maas Risenhoover
3 August 2021 at 07:58
you are not aware of the famous debates ?

Claire Khaw
3 August 2021 at 10:31
Nope.
Does Paul have a link to Wikipedia or similar about the time when a Jew informed his Christian overlords of the idolatry and blasphemy of Christianity? Presumably there is no need for Jews to inform their Muslim overlords that Islam had any flaws because it doesn't break any of the Noahide laws at all. All that is required is that a rabbi can be found to discuss these matters honestly and rationally.

Do I take it that Paul knows of no occasion when a Jew informed his Christian overlords that Christianity is idolatry and blasphemy?

Perhaps Paul's rabbi is better informed. If no evidence of can be found, we must assume there was no occasion when any Jew pointed out to his Christian overlords that Christianity is idolatry and blasphemy transgressing the Noahide laws. This means Jews are guilty as charged of their omission to properly teach the Noahide laws. Yom Kippur is just over a month away.

I have tried to do what Jews should have been doing on their behalves but it doesn't work when I do it since I am not a Jewess. Perhaps if Jews authorise me to do it, that might work.

Miriam Fauth
3 August 2021 at 11:31
If I may add a few thoughts.The implications of our history and survival as Jews runs so deep and spans for ever.We were tasked with the job of bringing the knowledge of G_d to the world...Light.Of course the opposition does not want this to come forth.Along tbis journey no one is perfect...even the Jewish Nation who were tasked with this job.Through for ever...we have battled to survive as a people...we have had to protect our selves...we have had to protect our Sacred Torah.There is an amazing book written by Geraldine Brookes called The People of the Book....following the journey of a Haggadah that was protected through ages...miraculously.while we have been struggling to survive ...other ages and religions were born.Islam Christianity....the main 2.Our Light tried to stay alive through pogroms..etc etc.....endless attacks...we have been consumed with surviving.In Rabbi Ken Spiros book.World Perfect....ypu will learn how will still managed to impact the world with Light..now..we are back in Our Land...we are stronger...there are numerous groups of Jewish people... Rabbis...that ate embracing in a new way..teaching the many many searching people who are gravitating to understand Torah from a Jewish insight.I have been along this journey for over 30 years.....ive read of and also know many people contributing to this journey.

Claire Khaw
3 August 2021 11:42
I am aware of the Inquisition and the Christian practice of heretic burning and this meant typically those guilty of the blasphemy of denying the divinity of Jesus. No Muslim is going to blame Jews for not coming forward in droves to be burned at the stake by Christians. However, since the First Amendment of the American Republic which was based on quran.com/2/256, no such excuse exists. The European Convention of Human Rights also guarantees freedom of speech and belief with Article 9.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights#Article_9_%E2%80%93_conscience_and_religion

Paul Maas Risenhoover
3 August 2021 at 11:46
Religious freedom in Europe and American does not naturally extend to the political system of Islam and its civil law system of sharia law.

Claire Khaw
3 August 2021 at 11:46
Chief Rabbi Mirvis would be the most senior Chief Rabbi in the world, being the Chief Rabbi of the British Commonwealth AKA British Imperial Jewry when the British Empire was global. He should be the one to confess this omission on behalf of world Jewry and perhaps point out that Muslims have not been much better themselves, despite having been given a clear command of quran.com/18/4

Paul Maas Risenhoover
3 August 2021 at 11:49
very funny...
Yom Kippur has always included judging all the nations, no one needs your sanction or request... as for your own sins, you have to seek your own teshuva

your anti-semitic blood libel about poisoned food recalls https://www.h-net.org/reviews/showpdf.php?id=39555

Claire Khaw
3 August 2021 at 11:53
Jews have clearly omitted to do what they were made God's Chosen People to do.  I assume some of them will feel guilty about this if they have the beginning of the wisdom that is fear of the Lord, but most Jews are secular Jews, which is yet more evidence that rabbis have not only been failing to teach properly the Noahide laws to gentiles, they have also been failing to teach Jews about them too.

Paul Maas Risenhoover
3 August 2021 at 11:55
your shameful aspersions will not benefit you during Yom Kippur... the Holy One has made His Perfect People His Chosen Ones...

Claire Khaw
3 August 2021 at 12:00
If Muslims refuse to confess their sin on Yom Kippur after being invited by Jews to join them for not obeying the command of quran.com/18/4, I guess they are also in trouble with Allah.  

The best way for Jews to to this would be to invite Muslims to join them for Yom Kippur and confess their omission too.  

That would be the most tactful and effective way of doing it, wouldn't you agree?  

The Supreme Leader of Iran should definitely be invited.
 

Paul Maas Risenhoover
3 August 2021 at 12:38
The Seven Laws are directly commanded at Sinai through Moses to all nations. Muslims have no excuse that they needed someone to tell them.

You still have not made teshuvah for repeating the blood slander about poisoned food, which you know is false.

Islam is much more poisonous food today.

Of course, Chinese communism supports Iran, so together their state atheism and state Islam are the most poisonous foods.


Claire Khaw
3 August 2021  at 12:44.
Jews have not been teaching the Noahide laws properly to gentiles, have they? You can find no evidence in which any Jew has told his Christian overlords that Christianity is idolatry and blasphemy.  

Define "blood slander". At no stage have I said anything to say I believed in the Christian accusations of Jews using the blood of Christian babies to enable their rituals.  

I drew an analogy between Jews allowing Christians to continue their own merry way in their flouting of the Noahide laws allowing people to jump out of plane knowing their parachute wouldn't open and allowing them to eat food that they know to be poisonous.  

This is further evidence that Jews have not been properly teaching the Noahide laws either to gentiles or to Jews because half the Jews in existence are secular.  

How is Islam more "poisonous" than the gay marriage and transgenderism?