Wednesday, 4 March 2026

Talking to Josh Gonzalez about Penal Substitutionary Atonement





Penal Substitutionary Atonment =  human sacrifice/only son sacrifice

1:00  Incorrect Trinitarian understanding

3:00  Anselm

Nicene Creed

4:00  "our sake", not a debt

Origen

Montanism

6:00  Luther and Calvin on PSA

7:00  PSA

Pauline Epistles

8:00  "Harrowing of hell" ie Jesus went to hell

AI Overview

The Harrowing of Hell, or Christ's descent into the realm of the dead to free righteous souls, is primarily based on 1 Peter 3:18–20, which describes Jesus being "made alive in the spirit" and proclaiming to "spirits in prison". Other key, supporting, or interpreted verses include: 

Ephesians 4:9: Suggests a descent into the "lower parts of the earth".

Acts 2:24–31: Quotes Psalm 16:10, stating Christ was not abandoned to Hades.

1 Peter 4:6: Mentions the gospel was preached to those now dead.

Matthew 12:40: References the "heart of the earth" for three days.

Revelation 1:17–18: Mentions Jesus holds the "keys of Death and Hades". 

These passages are foundational to the belief that Jesus descended to the underworld between his crucifixion and resurrection. 

9:00  Josh is Catholic.

10:00  Latin West and the Orthodox East

11:00  American Christianity is dominated  by Evangelicals. 

Charism = grace

12:00  Predestination

The Fall of Man

14:00  Filioque

"Orthodox Catholic"

15:00  The Great Schism

16:00  Modernism accepted at Vatican II

Ransom

17:00  The Great Schism

19:00  Separatism


22:00  Trinity

23:00  High church and low church

Soteriology, Christology and Trinitarian theology

24:00  "Eternally begetting the son"

25:00  Temporal order

26:00  God is sending forth His spirit.

27:00  Ontology and economia

28:00  "a divine  human person"

Jesus was sinless.

29:00  "a low view of creative matter"

30:00  God is transcendent.

God condescends to angels and humanity.

33:00   Inter-Trinitarian life

Ontological and economic claim

34:00  The Holy Spirit

36:00  Economia

37:00  Filioque and the monarchical Trinity

39:00  Multiplicity v Unitarian

God's wisdom

42:00  Jews, Muslims and Trinity

43:00  Attributes of God

45:00  Josh is a Catholic convert.

46:00  Josh's parents were Evangelical Christians.

47:00  Nestorianism

48:00  The nature of Jesus

49:00  Theosis is "participating in God's divinity".

50:00  Adoptionism and Nestorianism are first cousins. 

51:00  Tritheism and Quadtheism

52:00  Arian

53:00  Ephesus and Chalcedon

55:00  The Inter-Trinitarian Life

56:00  The more aesthetic Catholic Church

57:00  Christianity is not "a religion of the book". 

58:00  The role of scripture is downgraded.

1:01:00  Judaism and Islam are religions of the book, but  not Christians. 

1:02:00  Protestants are pseudo-Christians. 

1:03:00  Evangelicalism is a multi-level marketing operation. 

1:04:00  Pentecostalism

1:05:000  Burning bosom Mormonism

1:07:00   Lutheranism and Presbyterianism have lesbian priests. But so does Reform Judaism!

1:08:00   Josh's  parents were glad Josh returned to church even if it was not theirs.

1:09:00  "We don't even believe in the same Jesus Christ."

1:10:00  Reinventing their theology

1:11:00  Clarifying theology

Mormonism

1:12:00  Sociological phenomenon

Polygamy

1:13:00  Mitt Romney was  born in New Mexico.

1:14:00  Mormonism are supposed to be in constant receipt of new revelation. 


1:14:00  Scientology and Mormonism are white American religions. 
1:16:00  Jehovah's Witnesses using Christianity for their pacifism

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Talking to Josh Gonzalez about Penal Substitutionary Atonement

Penal Substitutionary Atonment =  human sacrifice/only son sacrifice 1:00  Incorrect Trinitarian understanding 3:00  Anselm Nicene Creed 4:0...