I know why God divided humanity into Jews and gentiles, but do you?
THE RADICALISED RABBI is a blog on Judaism and its very useful ideas and the blogger a Secular Koranist and a revolutionary. You don't have to be Jewish to find Jewish ideas very useful in tidying up your thinking and turbo-charging your powers of reasoning to the extent that you can even predict most events and disasters. The West is heading for disaster with its insane policy of Transnational Progressivism, turning our global village into Sodom and Gomorrah attracting the same punishment.
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Dr Mariche, psychologist and historian on the Caliphate and Empire
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1) Which verse of the Koran infringes the Noahide laws? 2) Why is it impossible that God would first reveal the Torah to Jews first and t...
No. Why ?
ReplyDeleteIf you subscribe to the narrative that God did create Man and divided humanity into Jews and gentiles, His two revelations of the Torah for Jews and the Koran for gentiles would then make sense.
ReplyDeleteWhat about all the other groups who didn't have access to or even knowledge of the Torah or the Qur'an?
ReplyDeleteMankind is much older then either of these 2 books.
Then they should learn about this story as soon as possible. Are you suggesting there are other divine revelations other than the Torah and the Koran? Even if there were, the Abrahamic God is the most powerful being conceivable.
ReplyDeleteWhat I am suggesting is that humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years at least. They had their own traditions, gods, religions & laws way before Judaism & Islam ever came on the scene.
ReplyDeleteWhy should they change their traditional ways?
What traditions do you think you might have to change if your government adopted Secular Koranism?
ReplyDeleteThat would depend on how seriously the Koran is to be taken.
ReplyDeleteIt promotes certain values which aren't accepted by other cultures and traditions.
Can we pick and choose which precepts we want to adhere to?
Or are we forced to live by the precepts that the book puts onto us ?
Which Koranic precepts do you object to?
ReplyDeleteI'm not objecting to anything at this point. But it is human nature to not want to be ruled over by a set of laws which come from an outside group/being.
ReplyDeleteWhy should Zoroastrians stop living by their ancestral ways and adopt the Koran as their guide?
What about the Hindus?
The Buddhists?
Or any other group for that matter?
Because their system has failed, of course. Don't you think Christianity and Liberalism have failed?
ReplyDeleteThat's a good question.
ReplyDeleteLiberalism oftentimes eventually gives into more extreme views such as Leftist and Far Right thinking.
Christianity being more of a personal religion by design was never intended to be a governing system.
Where Islam & Judaism were both personal and state religions by their very nature.
Now that being said, I am not familiar with any group of people who want to be ruled over by an ideology which is foreign to them.
Be it Western secular democracy in places which have traditions which are opposed to it as an example.
So why should Hindus, Buddhists or Zoroastrians give up the traditional ways of their fathers and adopt a foreign mindset?
Hindus, Buddhists etc won't have to give up their traditional ways at all!
ReplyDeleteAre you saying that those ideologies are not in conflict with Secular Koranism in any way?
ReplyDeleteIt is not the intention of Secular Koranism to ban idolatry because Muslims acknowledge that they can be guilty of hidden idolatry.
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_(Islam)#Lesser_shirk
But shirk is in opposition to Islam.
ReplyDeleteWhy would it be permitted under Secular Koranism?
Because if Jews and Muslims could be guilty of hidden idolatry while apparently praying correctly outwardly, it is not for them to ban idolatry.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I don't think that the native people want to be considered "idolaters" by outsiders.
ReplyDeleteBut that is a separate issue.
What about the tradition on women being lesser than men? It is an Islamic value but other cultures would be opposed to that.
Which tradition would hold sway and why?
What verses can you cite about women being lesser than men?
ReplyDeleteI don't know the verse, but in Islamic law 2 women witnesses are equal to one male witness.
ReplyDeleteWill that be the new norm?
This only applies to the witnessing of loan agreements. http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=2&verse=282
ReplyDeleteWill that be the new norm though?
ReplyDeleteI can only tell you what I intend. Following a book of rules said to be from God is better than allowing liberal politicians to make them up as they go along, surely.
ReplyDeleteBut there are other "books from God" besides the Koran.
ReplyDeleteWhy can't those books be a guide for mankind to those who prefer to follow those books instead?
Which books would these be?
ReplyDeleteThe Vedas of India.
ReplyDeleteThe philosophy of Greece.
The writings of Ancient Egypt.
The Gathas of Persia.
India is a fallen civilisation. Persia is now Iran under sharia. Egypt is now Muslim. Why use anything other than the Koran if the only system still working is based on the Koran?
ReplyDeleteIs it working? Or is it the dominant one because of conquest?
ReplyDeleteThe Indian system seems to be winning hearts & minds throughout the world.
And it's not based upon violent conquest like the Muslims did.
You don't think Christians acquired their three global empires through war?
ReplyDeleteThese are basic tropes
ReplyDeleteIndia was the riches country on earth in 1800s..by GDP
because of Mughals
JM says the Indian system wins hearts and minds
It was a Muslim ruler of India who patronised translations of the Vedas and came to Europe as the “Persian Upanishads”
Persia reflecting the Islamic influence language and script used for translations
So its thanks to Muslims in India that you've even heard of it, ironically..
Does a system work because it conquers all other systems by force?
ReplyDeleteIf so, then many systems can work not just Secular Koranism.
The Islamic State worked for a while.
So did the Roman Empire.
The British Empire.
The Soviet Union.
Apartheid South Africa.
The Confederate States.
The Sikh Empire.
And so many others as well.
So what's so special about Secular Koranism that is superior to all the rest?
Secular Koranism is based on the Koran which is the Official Handbook for Gentiles revealed by the Abrahamic God, the most powerful being conceivable.
ReplyDeleteHow is it the "official" handbook ?
ReplyDeleteWho made it official?
What process did they use to make it official?
Move away from rigid history
ReplyDeleteThings work and don't work
They have their place and time and human civilisations trend towards entropy..
Its not black and white, good and bad
Its a lot of greys...
Mixed good and bad in everything
But out of history you can derive principles that worked well, and those that worked less well
The fact that the Abrahamic God is believed to have revealed the Koran makes it official.
ReplyDeleteThe only reason Islam has worked is by force, that is it.
ReplyDeleteThe same way Nazism, Communism or any other system has ever worked.
So what is so special about Secular Koranism?
Also as far as belief making a thing official, believed by whom?
The Jews certainly don't believe that Islam is from their god. They don't acknowledge Mohammad as a genuine prophet.
If Judaism is divine ethno-nationalism, then Islam is divine civic nationalism. Only divine civic nationalism can fight divine ethno-nationalism.
ReplyDeleteIf Islam is Judaism Lite, Secular Koranism is Islam Lite.
Applying the Noahide laws would mean Islam would be considered the most Noahide observant of all the gentile religions and Christianity the least.
Jews don't have to acknowledge Muhammad or anyone else as a prophet. I am only asking Jews to rank the four gentile religions according to the Noahide laws.
Which are the 4 gentile religions?
ReplyDeleteI would agree that Islam is the most compliant to the Noahide Laws of all the major religions. That is because Mohammad copied so much of his religion from the Jewish one.
But why are the Noahide Laws of any value to Gentiles in re-establishing a patriarchy?
Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism are the four gentile religions.
ReplyDeleteJudaism is the most high status religion, isn't it?
Isn't Islam the closest to the Judeo-Christian tradition of the West?
What about Scientology? Sikhism? Bahai Faith? Voodoo? Zoroastrianism? Wicca? Or any of the other pagan traditions which pre-existed revealed religions?
ReplyDeleteIslam is the closest religion to the Jewish one.
But not to Christianity.
Nor to the the pre-Christian ones of Europe.
Judaism and Christianity are more dissimilar than similar.
The idea of the Judeo-Christian tradition is not an accurate one.
The Christian narrative tries to weld itself onto the Jewish religion.
But in reality they have little to do with each other.
Jews have lived alongside Christians for over 2,ooo years. But that doesn't mean there is a Judeo-Christian tradition though.
And as far as your statement that Judaism is religion with the most high status, what do you mean by that exactly?
If you are choosing a religion for your country, why would you not choose the best available most high status one that is most suitable?
ReplyDeleteI actually think Christianity was created to mock and punish Jews. Judaism is the most high status religion because Jews are God's Chosen People.
How are Jews God's Chosen People?
ReplyDeleteWho came up with that idea?
The Torah which Jews believe to have been given by God to Moses on Mount Sinai says Jews are God's Chosen People.
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_the_chosen_people#In_the_Bible
Yes I know that.
ReplyDeleteBut who wrote that book?
You told me you were more of an agnostic than anything else.
So it would surprise me if you believed that the Hebrew god wrote that book.
So how are Jews the chosen people of a god if there are no gods ?
Maybe they just made this up themselves?
That is possible. I can only tell you what Jews are supposed to believe about themselves.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like circular reasoning though.
ReplyDeleteThe Jews have the best religion because their god said that they were his chosen people.
But if this document wasn't written by their god then it is a forgery.
How is basing a society on an authority of an unseen being be the foundation for superior society?
If morality serves the purpose of keeping your group in existence and apart from others, then Judaism has done the job best of all. There are only two other Abrahamic faiths for gentiles - Christianity and Islam - and they are both derived from Judaism. If Christianity is kaput, then only Islam remains.
ReplyDelete